St. Thomas to student: Not Planned Parenthood
Posted on May 1st, 2008 – 7:00 AMBy Josephine Marcotty
University of St. Thomas St. Paul campus
Tara Borton, a first year law student at the University of St. Thomas School of Law, thought Planned Parenthood was a fine place to fulfill the public service requirement for graduation. She was set to start there on May 12.
But then she ran smack into abortion politics and Catholic doctrine. She’s also ignited a bit of firestorm at St. Thomas.
St. Thomas is a Catholic university, and the church has an issue with Planned Parenthood because it is a leader on abortion rights. So the student committee that oversees public service choices grudgingly gave her permission work with Planned Parenthood as long as she stayed clear of anything related to either birth control or abortion.
But even before she heard about that decision Law School Dean Thomas Mengler stepped in and nixed the whole thing. He’d received a flood of protests from others at the school objecting to the committee’s decision. Any volunteering for Planned Parenthood is unacceptable, he said in a letter to the committee and the school.
“Volunteer service at Planned Parenthood, whatever the nature of that service, advances the mission of Planned Parenthood, an organization whose mission is fundamentally at odds with a core value of the Catholic Church,” he said.
Borton has calmed down some, she said, “but when I read that email I was really upset.” She understands his point — that allowing her to volunteer for Planned Parenthood makes it look like the school is endorsing its mission. “But I think that’s totally off base,” she said. “I think that much it’s more of an academic detriment to the school than it is protective of Catholic identity.”
Besides, Borton is not Catholic. She is what her mother calls “a recovering Catholic,” she said. It’s not right for the school to impose Catholic doctrine on non-Catholic students, she said.
She chose St. Thomas law school in part because she believed in its social justice mission, which is closely tied to its Catholic identity, she said. “But my idea of of social justice is working at Planned Parenthood.”
Borton said she’s worked as a volunteer for Planned Parenthood before. “I like the work they do with (sexually transmitted infections) and contraception. They do male services, too,” she said.
Mengler said there is precedent for his decision. Nine years ago then school president Father Dennis Dease denied an internship to an undergraduate student who wished to volunteer at Planned Parenthood to help victims of acquaintance rape. But Father Dease said no for the same reasons as Dean Mengler. “Planned Parenthood is a leader in the abortions rights movement,” and “opposition to abortion is one of the core values of the Catholic faith,” Mengler said in his letter.
Mengler predicted that not everyone at the law school would agree, and he was right. A group of 80 students signed a letter objecting to his decision, saying among other things:
“The future of our school’s reputation in the legal community, as well as in the community at large, depends on the law school continuing to attract not only those Catholic students who agree with the Church’s teachings on the issues of abortion and contraception, but also those who respectfully disagree.”
Moreover, the students said, the dean does not have the right to overturn the decision of the student committee that approved Borton’s volunteer plan.
Mengler also said that of course anyone can volunteer anywhere on their own time. Bortons said she’s scheduled to met with Mengler today, and plans to ask him to find a compromise.
Planned Parenthood said in a news release:
“St. Thomas appears to be out of step with many of it’s own students and the majority of Minnesotans. This decision illustrates a disturbing and dangerous lack of tolerance on the part of leadership at the school.”
And it said that at least a dozen people from St. Thomas have volunteered at Planned Parenthood in last five years, but none from the law school.
It’s a controversy that raises a lot of interesting questions about the freedom students have to choose their own way, and the conflict inherent in being a world class law school and the edicts of the church. Oh, and contraception and sexually transmitted diseaases. Let’s not forget those.
Here’s a story about the controversy posted on the City Pages web site.
Here’s Mengler’s letter explaining his decision.
Here’s the letter from students who objected to it.
Here’s the statement from Planned Parenthood.
What do you think? Should Dean Mengler back down? Is he right to enforce the views of the church on the students? Is it likely to scare away prospective students?
512 Responses to "St. Thomas to student: Not Planned Parenthood"
I think Dean Mengler did the right thing. He is a spokesman for the Catholic church in his position. Since the churches position is against abortion, the dean really has no other choice. Students do not need to go to a Catholic school if they have differing views, but if they choose to go, then they should accept the policies of that school and also of the church. It’s the same as going to Northwestern or Bethel. If you don’t want to attend a school with their values, pick someplace else. Don’t try and force the school to do something against their belief system and then cry on the news about how unfair it is.
Under the excuse of fulfilling Catholic doctrine, St. Thomas is once again turning its back on the important work Planned Parenthood does for the community, such as counseling rape victims. Another example of doing politics instead of doing good. But hey, what else is new?!
Nothing is stopping Borton from volunteering at Planned Parenthood on her own time, she just can’t get course credit for it. St. Thomas is well within its rights to define its course requirements in a manner consistent with the values and beliefs of the church. There’s really nothing to discuss here.
Thou Shalt Not Kill
I’m not a bleeding heart anti-abortion Catholic but I understand the doctrine. There is an old papal encyclical, still valid, that the Catholic Church believes artificial birthcontrol and abortion to be contrary to God’s law. When the pope visited last week, media stated 1 in 4.5 Americans and 1 in 6 in the world are Catholics - so there is broad support for a religion that has some strict non-negotiable rules. If you don’t want to follow a religion’s rules, don’t go to their school …. seems reasonable to me.
I agree with Philip. The Catholic church is very clear in it’s teaching. Planned Parenthood - and it’s teaching- is in direct conflict with the church’s. Perhaps PP can begin to teach natural family planning if they are looking to be more in-step with Catholic thought. There are many secular law schools that this person can attend that I’m sure would be a better fit.
I didn’t see anything that Dean Mengler or St Thomas is stopping Ms Borton from volunteering at Planned Parenthood on her own time - they are saying that it cannnot be used to fulfill her St Thomas Public Service requirement. A Catholic university that should be allowed to follow their values and beliefs. Why is this news?
Thou Shalt Not Kill is pretty self explanatory unless your ignorant.
As a college student myself, attending a Catholic institution was a hard decision for me to make. I’m not Catholic, and I did not want the school’s affiliation with Catholicism to be pressed upon me. I am with the students at St. Thomas when I say, it is not a fair thing for the school to press its religious beliefs on those who attend – Tara Borton should go ahead and do her volunteer hours with Planned Parenthood, and if the college does not accept her work as acceptable for the requirement; she is a law student, she knows her rights, she should file suit.
I agree with St Thomas and applaud their decision. When it comes right down to it, when you choose to go to a school that is primarily a catholic school in its beliefs and standards you have to live by those standards. If you don’t like it, transfer. Anti-abortion is not a catholic stance but a bible stance. I am not, nor have I ever been Catholic, but as a Bible believing Christian I know what the Bible says about killing innocent people. Planned Parenthood can release any statement they want about what they think Minnesotans stand for but the truth is there is no greater endorser of abortion than PP and as a life-long Minnesotan I oppose Planned Parenthoods policies and would never endorse anything they do because of their stance on abortion. Therefore I do not attend anything endorsed by them, give money to any organization who supports them and if they had a school I would not attend or allow my children to attend.
“It’s not right for the school to impose Catholic doctrine on non-Catholic students, she said.”
typical entitlement mentality of the poor oppressed LAW SCHOOL student- NO ONE is “imposing” doctrine on her, she is free to believe and practice as she sees fit- this purely about credit for the internship. WAY TO GO St. Thomas!
The Dean is correct in his judgement, regardless of all the outside liberal interpretations. As a Catholic school, the school follows the guidelines of the Catholic faith. This is a religious issue and not one of secularism. The Catholic church also believes in natural family planning, and doesn’t approve of contraception. The students choice is to attend St. Thomas, and is not mandated. If they don’t agree with the Catholic churches teachings and doctrine, that is their decision. It is also their decision if they want to leave St. Thomas and attend the public University of Minnesota. As a private Catholic university, St. Thomas is entitled to practice their religious principles and beliefs without having to submit to those who have a different belief. And it does not have to be “in step” with Minnesotans! Planned Parenthood is “out of step” with Catholic doctrine and does not value ALL human life!
My gosh, St. Thomas can’t seem to go three weeks without some controversial, negative publicity in the press. It appears that the leadership at the school needs to take a re-fresher course in public relations. They continue to make strange decisions that will continue to stir up negative reactions.
Follow my religion or die.
This is not new.
Tom
Sara . . she should sue the school? Supreme court alread gives religious schools the protection of our constitution. This student holding media events and press conferences appears much more interested in advancing an agenda than doing her service.
That kind of media feed is what has made our politics and country much more contentious in recent years.
Give me a break!!! Her mother says it’s not right to impose catholic doctrine on non-catholic students?? Then don’t go to a catholic college!!!! If she doesn’t agree, then she needs to go to a different university. St. Thomas is a CATHOLIC University… founded on CATHOLIC principles. There are plenty of other colleges out there that won’t have a problem with it, so go there. Here we go again… everyone should be ‘free’ to choose what they want, except if you believe in anything religious. Tara knew this was a catholic university before she attended. This is not an issue about the freedom students have to choose their own way… this is an issue of someone once again trying to change something they don’t agree with. If she doesn’t agree with their catholic principles, she shouldn’t have attended a CATHOLIC college in the first place!
STFU Nancy
So this liberal student goes to a private Catholic college even though she doesn’t believe in Catholic doctrines? Then she bitches about it? That would be like me going to an ELCA college and trying to force my pro-life views on them.
I agree with other posters above. St Thomas is not prohibiting students from volunteering with any organization that they wish, they are just setting guidelines about which types of volunteer organizations count toward their course requirements. Students should realize when they enter any private academic institution that those schools have fundamental religous or moral beliefs. If you cannot accept the limitations that go along with that then don’t apply- go to a public law school. If Ms. Barton is so interested in working with Planned Parenthood then she should be willing to do so without incentive from her school.
Jes: couldn’t have said it better myself. I do not agree with some of St. Thomas’ recent decisions (not allow recent speakers on the campus) but this decision was a no-brainer. Abortion and PP are not a grey area in terms of Catholic doctrine. Don’t like it? Go to Hamline.
St. Thomas is not a public school. If Ms. Borton does not want to get a Catholic eductation that is her choice and she should not have chosen UST as her school.
Dave- What percent of St. Thomas students do you think “believe in the Catholic doctrines?” Maybe half? Maybe.
Dianne, give me a break. Planned Parenthood undercuts every ounce of whatever “public good” the organization does when it steers women to ending the lives of their children.
Peter has it right. This student can volunteer wherever she wants, including Planned Parenthood. It’s right for the school to deny her academic credit, however, because the volunteer work advances an organization whose mission is counter to Catholic (human) values.
Moreover, this student could have attended another school. She chose St. Thomas, therefore it’s not unreasonable for the school to expect her to follow its code…. which is a key part of it’s learning process.
There is no god, people. Quit being so gullible. There’s a stronger likelihood that there are aliens then there is a god. And yet you don’t see people so obsessed with praying or worshipping aliens, do you? Of course not because that would be ridiculous. As is this misplaced obsession with an other-worldly deity. Here’s a quarter go by yourselves a clue.
Matt- It doesn’t matter what percentage of UST students believe in the doctrines. Tara is a representative of UST and UST’s mission is in line with Catholic doctrine.
She’s kidding right? A Catholic University doesn’t have a RIGHT to put there own rules in place? She’s listening to to many pundents that say sue if you don’t get your way. Go to a college that doesn’t have rules of right and wrong……..that’s your RIGHT. I’m proud of St Thomas for standing up for moral behavior.
St. Thomas did the right thing in this case. It has an obligation as a Catholic university to not endorse or support anything running contrary to fundamental Catholic beliefs regarding the dignity of life. Plan Parenthood’s statement seems to be confusing “tolerance” with “indifference”. As a “lapsed Catholic,” Borton knew the educational philosophy and religious framework of the private university she chose to attend. If she wanted her volunteer work at Plan Parenthood to be sanctioned by her university, she could have gone to a secular institution.
St. Thomas certainly doesn’t discriminate against taking the money. Maybe St. Thomas should make sure the students fall in line before they cash the check.
Matt, if you don’t believe in what the Catholic church teaches, you should not go to a Catholic college. Or be like me, I attend the UofM and don’t agree with much of the liberal crap they preach, but I am not suing to try to change it.
Folks who keep saying this is about receiving credit for an internship, maybe you need to research this more. This is about fulfilling a community service requirement. There is no credit. There is nothing that shows up on a transcript. There is no supervisor. This is not about credit at all. It is simply about fulfilling a requirement that someone go out into the community and follow their own path to engage in community work. That’s it.
All you St. Thomas backers keep saying, if she didn’t want to abide by the Catholic doctrines, don’t go to St. Thomas.
At the same time, one could easily say, if St. Thomas doesn’t want their students to question those catholic doctrines, then don’t accept students into your school who aren’t practicing Catholics.
Dave21, the U of M doesn’t tell you you can’t go out and do what you want to do. You’re arguing this from the opposite side of the fence.
Let me see. It’s certainly no secret that St. Thomas is a Catholic university. That’s pretty clear in its mission statement too. And this student seems to think that her personal preferences should override the university’s mission? This entitlement mentality amazes me.
Uhhh . . . do we celebrate conception dates? I didn’t think so. We celebrate BIRTH dates, that’s when life begins, period. So all of you whacked out, fascist “Pro-Lifers” need to keep your nazi viewpoints to yourself.
“Thou shalt not kill.” Unless you are a Crusader, taking vengeance upon your enemies, or David killing Goliath, right? How many of you anti-abortionists approve of the death penalty?
This is what makes me ashamed to be a St. Thomas grad. The fact that, nine years ago, Dease denied an internship to an undergraduate student who wanted to volunteer at Planned Parenthood to help victims of acquaintance rape, says alot about the supposed moral compass of the leadership there. They claim to have a social justice mission, but somehow if a person is raped they are exempt from compassion. You don’t have to be a catholic to attend that university. People do choose it for its small class sizes and solid curriculum. If the leadership is so into catholic doctrine, how does a business school fit in? They want some of the trappings of modern society - the ones that bring in cash. But catholic doctrine kicks in when it comes to SEX. By the way, Planned Parenthood offers a multitude of services. They do regular gynecological exams for women, including pap smears, which are critical in detecting cervical cancer. How is that bad?
I agree with the sentiment that, because St Thomas is a private school, they are entirely within their rights to make this decision. However, I still think there are hints of politics here.
Our pope has spoken out against the war in Iraq. However, do any of you believe that a student who wanted to volunteer for an organization that had part of it’s mission devoted to promoting our current war would be told they couldn’t get class credit for it? I would seriously doubt the school would do so, although it would be the correct and consistent thing to do.
Right on Matt!! Seems pro-death penalty and Pro-lifers are one and the same, yet suprisingly contradictory. Just a bunch of Hitler-wannabes.
There is something to discuss. If St. Thomas promises to embrace different cultures, views, etc, which also includes different religion, then volunteering at Planned Parenthood shouldn’t be a problem. I graduated from there and knew a lot of students who went there to P.P. to get service anonymously(both males and females). This is the truth! Even though P.P. is at odds with “St. Thomas’s core values” the Dean needs to think about it’s student body. Reality Check! College students will be college students and stuff happens. P.P. and St. Thomas may have different views, but one common view they share is that both care about the safety of students in crisis. The Dean needs to realize that one outlet is P.P.
Matt Matt Matt. Why should non-Catholics be banned? I am non-Catholic but support almost all of the chruches teachings.
You don’t have to be a practicing Catholic, but you shouldn’t use the school as vessal to particapate in anti-Catholic activities.
And knowing how intolerant and narrow minded many Twin Cities residents are, I imaging this thread will degenerate in to anti-Catholic hatred.
First, St Thomas is a Roman Catholic University and is right to hold to the teachings of the church, secondly it has a Law School that is positioned under the canopy of the University. As such the Law School needs to conform to the position of the University which is the position of the church. Dean Mengler did the right thing. Any student, Roman Catholic or otherwise, has to recognize the relationships within the University - do they have to agree, no, but they chose to attend, and were free to look elsewhere, knowing that St Thomas University is Roman Catholic. In a world that increasingly tells us all evil/sin is relative and acceptable and we just have to “agree to disagree,” it is refreshing to see a church school hold true to the teachings of the church - we are in the world but we are not of the world.
Your personal beliefs don’t come into this, so stop bringing them up. Pro-life, pro-choice, anti-religious, liberal, conservative, all of you just stop trying to incite an argument. It doesn’t matter whether YOU think abortion is bad or Christians are stupid. The only thing that matters in this argument is whether a private educational institution has the right to hold their students to the rules. Which they do.
“…it is not a fair thing for the school to press its religious beliefs on those who attend.”
Yes it is. She could have chosen not to go there. This isn’t the U of M. It’s a private religious college funded by private money, and people attending private religious schools should stop acting surprised when they find out that there are rules against otherwise legal practices.
Matt-
You’re absolutely right, but then I would think you would run into MANY discrimination lawsuits by non Catholics wanting to get into UST. While they let a variety of people in, they are still a Catholic institution and students know that when they attend.
Ridiculous. St. Thomas has every right to say no to working for Planned Parenthood. PP makes $$millions$$ killing babies. They don’t need any volunteers anyway with this kind of ‘profit’. Dirty money, I’d say. This young lady obviously doesn’t get it. I pray she will learn.
I think the Catholic’s should start using Plan Parenthood more. Because abstinence until marriage isnt working for their worshippers. Just ask the Catholic Preist’s that prey on young children, they cant even keep it in their pants.
Surprise, surprise…another shot at UST by the Strib. I guess we’re due, it’s been two weeks since the last one… Someone call Katherine Kersten!
It’s a catholic University, one knows that LONG before one enrolls. I’m a non-catholic UST grad and endured some things that I may not have agreed 100% with, but ultimately it was my choice to stay or go. I stayed and I have no regrets. If this individual doesn’t like the stance UST is taking, either suck it up or leave, thousands make that decision every year, why does her struggle make front page news?
…And frankly, if she didn’t see this opposition from UST coming when she chose PP for her internship, she has no business being in law school.
And just what is going to make the Law School education a “Catholic” education? This certainly applies with the undergraduate degrees where the college can easily add certain required theology clases, but that does not match up well with a Juris Doctor degree. What about that degree is a “catholic” degree? Absolutely nothing. Also, do know that there are only 4 law schools in the entire state. There are a limited number of slots for students to fill. Students are not going to the St. Thomas Law School because it is a Catholic school. They are going there because it is the easiest law school to get into and because they want a law degree, not a “catholic” education.
As a Catholic affilitated school, it has an obligation to align with the Church as much as possible. Prospective students should factor that in when deciding if that is where they want to attend or not. Also noting that it sounds like the school isn’t barring her from volunteering at all with PP, if that is her desire, but simply that it will not count towards the public service requirement. If the school as a whole does not like that, then perhaps they should look to remove their affiliation.
Once again representatives of the Catholic church do not miss an opportunity to disappoint it’s followers. They are out of touch with reality.
Dave21. Christianity is a cool ethos, don’t get me wrong. But the people who have run it for the last 1900 years (you will notice I said 1900 years - so from about 100 C.E. onwards) have been a pretty dispicable group. Look up John XXII, a medieval pope, and you’ll have a great example. Look at the Christian ethos of slaughtering non-believers (Jewish pograms ran from Spain to Byzantium, western Europeans sacked Constantinople in 1204 because it was Greek Orthodox). The Greek Orthodox church persecuted people who they thought were “idolaters” - in other words, people who used crucifixes and other religious devices. Not to mention the slaughter of pagans and Muslims in the crusades. Or how about the slaughter of the Cathars simply because they didn’t acknowledge the Pope’s authority? Or how about the 30 Years War in Germany, where over 5 million people were killed during the Restoration? It’s no wonder Islam, which is historically MUCH more tolerant than Christianity, swept up more than half of late antiquity Christendom. Get off your high horse about Christianity.
Oooh. I live for people who spew biblical phrase from a book they’ve likely never even read…
How about “Judge not, lest you be judged”?
If St. Thomas accepts tax dollars, they have effectively “sold” their rights to their bottom-line morality.
Only a liberal Democrat sees no difference between executing 12 mass murderers each year and killing 1,500,000 babies who are inconvenient.
Oh, and by the way, I’m NOT a liberal Democrat. I just think for myself.
Well said Dave.
Deb, quit wasting your time praying. They aren’t being heard, there’s no one listening!!! Get it! THERE IS NO GOD. And if you’d all start figuring that out, then so much of this world would be a better place. Think of the war in Iraq, wouldn’t be happening if not for religion. Think about WWII, wouldn’t have happened if not for religion. The Crusades??? Yep, religion, too. Because so many of you are so gullible and easily manipulated, you perpetuate this on-going violence, simply because someone disagrees with you. Get over it and start living in the 21st century - The godless era!!!
Deb Edwards and others, how many unwanted, unplanned, and/or product of rape/incest babies have you adopted lately? If you’re going to crusade against PP, then it’s time to step up and do all you personally can to prevent unwanted/unplanned pregnancies, and take responsibility for the babies that parents have that can’t or won’t care for.
Matt, it’s unfortunate you hate Christians like me so much. But you know what, if you are ever in need, I will assist you. The Salvation Army will. Catholic Charties will. Christian hospitals will let you in, no questions asked. I have an aunt and uncle who take in homeless people and do what they can to get them on their feet. I could go and on and on, but someone as ignorant as you will never change your mind.
Each year Planned Parnthood provides millions of cancer screenings and tests and treatment for STDs, in addition to birth control to prevent pregnancies that if they occurred, may be terminated through abortion. These services are 97% of what they do. Their primary client base is low income people. Those that howl about PP’s abortion services, which comprise 3% of the services they provide, clearly cannot see the forest for that one little tree. The law student seems to get it though. Kudos to her. I hope that if she finds out UST won’t accept it as her community service, she donates her time anyway.
She can go help kill babies on her own time. I don’t know why she is trying to make such a big deal about. What a coincidence that she is a law student. She will make a great ACLU lawyer filing frivolous lawsuits and bullying small towns. Should have went to another school that has no rules or morals! Stupid Leftist.
I also agree that you shouldn’t go to a school if you don’t believe in their mission. So if you have a problem with religious schools, don’t go there. If you have a problem with the military, don’t go to a military academy. People need to think about what they are doing before they do it.
This is a college first and foremost. The beliefs of the religion should not be crammed down the throats of its students. What happened to freedom in America? Any student should be able to fulfill there public service and any organized company. There are many services that planned parenthood provides that is beneficial to many. If a person can help just one person thats positive motivator to our society.
According to the St. Thomas Law public service requirement, the student should “promote and participate in service programs designed to address the needs and improve the conditions of the disadvantaged and underserved.”
The requirement is stated as: “Each student must complete 50 hours of qualifying public service between the beginning of his or her first semester of law school and the end of his or her last semester.”
In addition, in determining Qualifying Public Service, “The determination of the Dean or the Dean’s designee will be final.”
Law School Policy Catalog
St. Thomas is completely within its rights to make this determination, and it seems that they did so totally within their own policies.
At the same time, the community has every right to criticize the decision, even though chances are basically nil that they’ll change it. I think it’s ridiculous that they won’t allow her to work where she wants to work, but they have every right to make that determination.
Matt, it’s unfortunate you hate Christians like me so much. I don’t hate Christians - I never said that. I said I don’t like their institutions. There is a HUGE difference there. But I’m probably too ignorant to have any subtlety to my arguments or thinking, right? 
I hope that Tara decides to volunteer at Planned Parenthood on her own time and wears a big purple UST sweatshirt while she’s there to boot!
I feel sorry for your Simian and will pray for you.
WWII was not a religious war and Communism (not religious) killed tens of millions. This is just in the last 75 years- not going back hundreds of years to the Crusades.
I wish pro-lifer’s and pro-choicer’s could just find a middle ground. I think this blog is a good starting point to solve this problem.
It would be like some idiot working at PETA volunteering at a meat packing facility. Get a clue liberals!
Hopefully no St. Thomas law student ever works with a Murder Suspect because the Catholic Church frowns on Murder. In fact no St. Thomas law student should ever work with a sinner.
I LOVE how these folks on this board act like the students have no rights beyond selecting this school. In no other way could a person spend $128,000 of his own money and be told he has no right to complain about how someone handles his purchase. You folks would be the first ones complaining if it was your money and something was done in a way you didn’t like.
Does anyone find it funny that the letter from the students opposing Dean Mengler’s decision was signed by Jillian Dease…niece of Father Dennis Dease?
St. Thomas Univ. is totally within its rights to uphold standards consistent with its mission. Making the decision to go to a Catholic university should mean something.
95% of what PP does has nothing to do with abortions. The vast majority of their resources are used for cancer screenings, preventative care, and health services for the underprivledged who cannot afford medical care. Since when do those aspects not conform with Jesus’ message of caring for the sick and poor? After all, the “meek shall inherit the earth!”
Jeff, PP does much more than perform abortions, but their profit is in those abortions.
Yeah, Mike Potter!! You can actually spell. A first for a swastika-wearing, KKK, gun-toting, fascist like yourself. However, your grammar is terrible. I guess that’s not unusual for an inbred
So if PP did no abortions everyone would support them?
Mike Potter, zing, you really got those liberals. If only Bill O’Reiley would publish your material. Could you come up with worse analogy???? This has to do with graduation requirements. St. Thomas is not saying that she can’t volunteer–let’s get that straight.
This is just a big publicity stunt. Stupid ACLU wannabe. Cant wait to this waterhead gets her law degree so she can make this a worse society. I’m not Catholic, but if you go to a Catholic school, she should expect some rules. Get over yourselves!
I would like to see the proof for the statement that PP profits from the abortion services it provides.
Maybe Borton will get hit by a drunk illegal with no license, insurance and on the way to get an aborton.
Jeff, you are incorrect. Based on admission standards and national rankings St. Thomas is the second best law school in the state. Both Hamline and William Mitchell are easier to get into.
Oh good, I was waiting for the post wishing death upon the student for speaking her mind.
Thou Shalt Not Kill?? Really? What about when the Catholics massacred tens of thousands of people? Oh,that’s right,it was a long time ago so it doesn’t matter.
It’s a blog you jerk off. You leftists are so predictable. When someone doesn’t agree with your leftist pinko ideology you label them a racist, a fascist, or white trash. It’s May Day, go get your 5 gallon bucket and go bang on it downtown you anarchist piece of filth.
Jesse, the data on PP is public and they do not make their “profits” on abortions. They rely heavily on donations and barely break even most of the time. Either way, the point still remains that the vast, vast majority of their resources are used for preventative screenings, counseling, and health care for the poor. Once again, the question still remains as to how that is contradictory to Jesus’ message of helping the poor and lame.
lorelei… hopefully all liberals like you and the ACLU will enjoy their time in hell…
I’m so happy that we can all transcend personal attacks and talk about the interesting issue.
That said, I look forward to your next post Mike Potter. They’re pretty wonderful.
Nick, that drunk will be your mother.
No W, you are incorrect because I am a law school student in this state and it is widely known that St Thomas is the easiest to get into because of how new it is, its terrible location, and its need for students.
Does anyone really believe that this student just stumbled innocently into this controversy? Could she really have been shocked that STU, a Catholic school, might have a problem with giving her credit for working for the other side? Does anyone else smell a setup?
I am a St. Thomas alumna and lately, it’s becoming embarrassing to be one.
Planned Parenthood does a lot of great things. They do more than provide abortions. Would St Thomas allow her to work in a homeless shelter? They benefit drug users….St. Thomas remains one of the more hypocritical institutions around. Sometimes I’m embarrased to be an alum.
Diana, I’m sure St. Thomas feels the same about you.
I appluaud UST for finally remembering it is a Catholic institution. I can understand how conflicted the student must be after the University revoked the automatic seat of the Archbishop on the board of regents, the infatuation of the school with Cuba, the “worker’s paradise” that thousands risk death to escape at the first opportunity and other various and sundry steps toward secularizing the university.
That said, the student is a typical arrogant liberal who insists on poking her finger in the eye of good sense and common courtesy. If you want to be an abortion activist do it on your own time or at a non-Catholic institution. Don’t expect the Church to sanction your activity through its colleges.
The first step in becoming a good lawyer is understanding both your client and your opponent and not dismissing either. If you do you are doomed to fail. Tara Barton should repeat her first year in law school for failing to respect her adversary.
Reginald, you crackhead liberal, it’s your mom, welfare boy…
I went SJU in collegeville, Another Catholic University, and even though STU is a huge rival of SJU, I applaud them greatly for this decision.
Most points have been brought up already, few things to add.
The Catholic Church is not losing touch with its followers, the followers re losing touch with the Church. The Church Doctrine had been around for almost 2000 years. The majority that fall away never bother to look at why the church believes what it does, they just look for the easiest path for them.
A few have mentioned Planned Parenthood has other services, and that is true, but one of their services is contraception, which is also against church teaching.
Once again, bravo STU, keep up the Catholic teaching!
to Nick,
Now that’s a good Catholic boy….
Jesus would have no place in today’s catholic church….
see Matthew 24:11
Amazing! Now we’ve got “yo mama” jokes! It really doesn’t get better than this.
Amused, I’m not Catholic you worthless troll.
W says:
May 1st, 2008 at 9:38 am
“Jeff, you are incorrect. Based on admission standards and national rankings St. Thomas is the second best law school in the state. Both Hamline and William Mitchell are easier to get into.”
Spoken by someone who has no idea what the situation is with local law schools. Anyone who knows anything about area law schools knows this isn’t true.
Some on here keep saying that what the Dean did was correct according to Catholic’s core value, but as a St. Thomas grad, I didn’t see Catholicism in the student body at all! Many students partied, drinked, had one night stands, etc. so to make St. Thomas look goody, goody because of it’s Catholic affiliation is incorrect. Without PP, many students lives would be over.
mwheele. “Would St Thomas allow her to work in a homeless shelter? They benefit drug users.” Stupid analogy. Does the homeless shelter hand out drugs?
Wow lots of uninformed opinions out here. If you are going to attack the Catholic church and its beliefs, you should at least understand them.
Bringing in issues about the death penalty and war are distractions and would require discussions of their own. In this context they are simply poke and runs.
Taking a life is a mortal sin. There are some exceptions, which include cases of self defense, war, and captial punishment. There are no exceptions for taking the life of an unborn child. Even a child conceived by rape, incest or if the mother is in danger. Anyone who says that life begins at birth is rationalizing and ignoring a whole lot of actual fact.
it is helpful to know that this community service requirement is a requiremnt of graduation and is a not a paid for class. the student must present the project proposal for approval and then complete a paper or deliverable at the end of the effort. it is not simply a requirment to put in X number of hours and thats it.
St Thomas has every right to define that requirement and would be seriously wrong if it implicitly supported an organization that supported something contrary to one of the most important issues in the Church.
Those who are Catholic that believe the church is out of touch on the abortion issue need to reflect on their faith as they missed a key message along the way.
The media is liberal and the Strib is actively liberal. This article is more of the variety of “See look at this. Can you beleive they think this way?” Its a hit job.
Take a poll in a Catholic Church (or better yet, a Catholic school), and see how many are actively using birth control.
How come you don’t see families any more like the Kennedy bunch? Not just 2-3 kids running around - but 11 like good old Bobby or nine like the ultimate swindler Joseph K.
Why - because you know they are using birth control. Don’t lie to yourself - you know they are using it. Otherwise you would see the fold returning to the days of old with the mothers constantly pregnant - heck, keep them barefoot in the kitchen while they are at it.
Bunch of hippocrates to say the least.
Glad to say I am not one of them.
I’m amused that someone on here claimed that abortions were Planned Parenthood’s prime source of profit. Well, Planned Parenthood is a non-profit organization. It doesn’t make a profit. It makes enough to get by with the fees it charges and charitable donations. That’s the entire point why someone might volunteer there.
Nick, there’s no hell and no heaven. Just lights out when your head hits the dirt. I feel sorry for you and that other whack job Nazi Mick Pothead. You get on a soapbox, and preach your right wing fascism. But then you go and rape little boys. RAPE THEM!! You sick, twisted fruit cakes.
St. Thomas allows ROTC, which benefits the military, which is around to kill people. Doesn’t that run counter to the church’s teachings on non-violence?
Planned Parenthood income: $1 billion
Planned Parenthood, the nation’s largest abortion provider, made over $1 billion in income during the 2006-2007 fiscal year, according to its annual report. The non-profit group went from an income of $972 million in 2005-2006 to $1.017 billion this past year. Planned Parenthood said the increase “highlights our advancements in providing and protecting trusted healthcare services and medically accurate sexuality education.”
The report reveals that Planned Parenthood is performing more abortions now than ever. In 2005, Planned Parenthood provided 264,943 abortions, and in 2006, it was up to 289,650. In addition, the organization’s “excess of revenue over expenses” funds doubled from $55.7 million in 2005 to $112 million the following year.
Planned Parenthood also admits receiving more than $336 million in government grants and contracts from the state and federal levels.
“A majority of Americans oppose taxpayer funding of abortion – however, still Planned Parenthood receives more than $300 million in taxpayer funding each year for ‘family planning’ projects that help bolster their abortion trade,” said Tony Perkins, head of the Family Research Council.
Yet, according to Perkins, the ultimate slap in the face to pro-lifers is the fact that Planned Parenthood still receives money from the government while spending $10 million in this year’s election to support pro-abortion candidates.
http://www.lifenews.com, 3/28/08
I am a 3L at St. Thomas and if one goes by the rankings, St. Thomas is the second best law school in Minnesota. It has a great location/beautiful new facility. Also, the students and faculty, regardless of their views, are very tolerant of opposing viewpoints. St. Thomas’ law school has a diverse student body, where students generally get along.
I don’t fully agree with the ideas and values espoused by the Catholic Church, but it is St. Thomas’ right to set standards for their institution. Even if those standards are purely religious in nature, it is that private institution’s right to do so. They design the requirements for the type of educated professionals they send out into the world, and it is their responsibility to ensure their curriculum matches their mission.
Saint Thomas did their Law students NO favors here. None. It’s already tough to get a job out of law school, and now a Saint Thomas law degree will simply be worth less.
Simian, if you can prove, logically and rationally, that God does not exist, then and only then can you start to make statements that claim he does not. If you can’t prove it, then it is just your opinion, which I respect but disagree with. Have the same respect for those who do believe something they recognize and understand to be true, based on much empirical evidence. Also, wars are caused by the evil in our own hearts, which leads to lying, hatred, killing, etc. Humanity’s sinful nature causes all the distress you view around you, but if you want to believe it’s religion, that’s your choice. Just have respect for the intelligence and goodwill of those you disagree with. Thanks.
Simian,
Who is the sick one? You were a mistake and should have been aborted. Everyone knows it including yourself.
An article that quotes the Family Research Council doesn’t really give me confidence in its findings.
I am a 3L at St. Thomas and if one goes by the rankings, St. Thomas is the second best law school in Minnesota. It has a great location/beautiful new facility. Also, the students and faculty, regardless of their views, are very tolerant of opposing viewpoints. St. Thomas’ law school has a diverse student body, where students generally get along.
You may be a 3L, I don’t claim that you aren’t. But you really ought to know better. Four years ago, the law school wasn’t even accredited.
Planned Parenthood offers a lot of other programs and support that are not related to abortion.
That’s like boycotting GE lightbulbs because you didn’t like this week’s episode of the Office.
(GE owns NBC but one doesn’t have a lot to do with the other)
The UST leadership has continually been challenged with balancing the paradox between being Catholic and being a prestigious University. I personally question the prevention of of the students volunteer work and believe she should be allowed. Isn’t that exactly what the missionaries did - venture into groups of dissenters and non-believers in efforts to help them see as they do? To find God? Due to this paradox, unfortunately UST will probably never become the University it wishes to be.
Van,
You are an idiot. Did you smoke some weed before you came up with that analogy?
Simian when you lay your empty head down to sleep tonight and you take your last breath and your cold heart stops, remember that Jesus died for everyone, including worthless scums like you.
Jesse G, interesting statistics. However, did you know that over 80% of the abortions performed by PP, were on non-viable pregnancies. That is, the pregnancies were going to result in a still-birth anyway. Stated differently, the baby had a genetic defect, so catastrophic that it wouldn’t survive to birth. Now tell me why abortion shouldn’t be available??? Is it more humane to have a non-viable baby be “born” dead and disfigured, severly traumatizing the mother (and potentially father). Or would you like to see an eyeless, or headless one-armed fetus ooze out of your vagina?
Mike, I’m with you. Liberal trash is destroying this country and the world.
Chad,
You don’t have a point whatsoever. She was not intending to “save lost souls”. She is a leftist law student with selfish beliefs. She can kill babies on her own time. STU is not preventing her from doing that. They simply are not giving credit for helping a baby killing center.
Jpberka, your comment makes no sense, where should St. Thomas start? Four year ago St. Thomas had preliminary accreditation. It became accredited faster than expected because of all the hard work and money by the faculty and administers and, I believe, it was one of two schools ranked above the fourth tier with its initial ranking.
Well Simian, you’re obviously one of the oozes that survived…
With all the recent bad press UST is getting, I have been more and more embarrassed to be an alumi of this fine institution. I am very proud of my degree, I was prepared well and most importantly I was prepared to challenge the status quo and not blindly accept doctrine, but to question it, in the spirit of St. Thomas Aquinas. Seeing the powers that be get caught up in these petty fights and having it aired out in the press makes me wonder if this fine institution where I earned two degrees that paved the way for a successful professional career has lost its way. They can have both worlds, they are just choosing not to.
Simian, where do you get that 80% stat? Please show me.
Simian, that last senctece cracked me up!
Why not enroll at a predominately Muslim university and impose your values on them. Perhaps you could even force them serve ham sandwiches. Some people only see diversity with their eyes, others embrace the diversity they hear with their ears.
Simian,
Where did you get your stats from? Were they verified by an independent party? Maybe if society promoted family, and taking responsibility we wouldn’t have an epidemic of knocked up women.
Chad, agreed. This is the conundrum when a religious school gets involved with the education of the public. IF you want to give a theological education, go for it. But if you want to give an education that is applicable to the world as a whole, it is very difficult to apply every “catholic” standard and practice to the classes themselves. There is also the issue that many of the students themselves are either not catholic or are catholic and do not adhere to the practices themselves. This is to me is a much bigger issue for an institution that wants to be known for its values than the situation from this story. If they really cared about enforcing their beliefs upon the student body, then they would punish sutdents who got have misdemeanor drinking tickets on their record, students who swear in class, and students who have sex but aren’t married. This simply was an opportunity for the school to make headlines about its “standing up” for its values.
Tom McG, there is precisely nothing about my argument that doesn’t make sense. STU’s School of Law is not considered with any more prestige than any single other law school in the metro area, and that includes Hamline and William Mitchell. Sorry to break it to you.
You are right Jerry!
It would be helpful if UST spelled out precisely what percentage of ideological and/or doctrinal purity they expect of their students. What percentage do you think have sex outside marriage? 75%, 80%? What percentage use contraception at some point in their lives? I would guess about 95%.
Would UST ban law students from interning with the JAG corps or some other branch of the military? Both John Paul II and Benedict XIV have spoken about the evils of militarism. John Paul II spoke quite clearly about the injustice of the Iraq war.
Would UST ban law students from interning with US Attorney’s offices or Federal courts? Or state courts, aside from Minnesota? Those are all legal institutions that either seek the death penalty for criminal defendents, or sentence convicts to death. The death penalty is against Catholic doctrine after all.
Likewise, as near I can remember, Catholic Church doctrine doesn’t rank sins in order of their relative sinfulness. Sin is sin. So, if you can’t volunteer at Planned Parenthood because of contraception and abortion, but you can work in a government office that seeks the death of criminal defendants then UST is selectively applying church doctrine. Just like all of those cafeteria Catholics who have abortions and use birth control. Ergo, UST is playing politics just as much as it is defending church tenets.
US News doesn’t actually rank St. Thomas Law:
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/law/items
Pinko Liberals always looking for a loophole.
Maybe the Catholic Church should wake up and smell the coffee: do they think that no Catholics get abortions, use planned parenthood services and that no Catholic doctors perform abortions? Get real! Also, because a person volunteers at PP doesn’t say they support abortion. Walk in their shoes before you pass judgement!
MR, if you look in their search window for the school, it does show up as a Tier 4 school.
Way to go Tara. The services that are provided by Planned Parenthood fall within the laws of the this country. A law school is here to teach students the law and how to interpret it on their own. It is the practacing lawyers responsibility to then do this for their client and represent their client. In the same respect shouldn’t they be encouraging their students to start making these types of decisions in their daily lives? I wonder how much independent thinking can come out of a place like this. There are hundreds more lawyers in Minnesota then there are jobs for them and this number is growing each year. St. Thomas is a new school and the third class of lawyers educated there is just about to graduate, it will be interesting with time to see how lawyers educated at this institution practice. They have the advantage of the St. Thomas name and community networking, I hope that the classes are made up more of unbiased students like Tara and not like the administration who is imposing their values on all there students.
Thanks Jeff - Agree with your sentiments as well…
You’re right Deb and they’re all going to hell for it.
I’m Catholic, but Pro-choice. However, I’m glad to see UST sticking to their guns on this issue. And if the student doesn’t go along with it, find another law school to attend.
Mike Potter - nice comeback. Did you think of that all by yourself, or did you get help from someone with a brain?
Nick - that’s the spirit. Didn’t take long for your true colors to come out. Thanks for proving my point that religious folk are intolerant hypocrites.
Ingrid - I’d be happy to provide empirical data. Where to begin. Let’s start at the beginning. Scientifically speaking there are three distinct species of humans - caucasian decent, african decent and asian decent. That disproves the adam/eve theory. There may have been three sets of adam & eve, but your bible fails to mention that. Second, how is any language formed? By people. We (meaning humans) created all words, whether in english, spanish, hebrew, russian, japanese, whatever. Humans used sounds to create labels to help explain things and develop a common method for communicating with others. So when I say chair, you know I’m speaking of an object in which to sit. Over time, more and more words were developed to describe what people saw, heard, experienced, etc. The point is that humans created all words, including god. The concept of god is something a human had to come up with as with any other word, concept or idea. Which makes it entirely fallible. Then one only needs to look a the history and corruption of religion to figure out what it’s true purpose has always been — keep people stupid and in-line. That way you control them. It’s an outdated paradigm whose demise is long overdue.
Nick, last I checked, you don’t determine who gets into hell. I promise you that God won’t be looking for your input on judgement day.
Thanks jpberka. It shows up as a Tier 3 school, 3rd behind the U and Hamline.
I forgot to attach the link:
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/law/search/state+MN
I have to say, these ultra-liberals in here really strike fear for the future of this country in me.
First off, let me preface this by saying that I am NOT a catholic, and am barely a practicing Christian. However, to hear some of you say that the sole purpose of the military is “to kill people”, that Christians that use birth control are hypocrites, and that just because some students at UST “partied, drinked(?) and had one night stands” means that UST should completely abolish all affiliation with the Catholic religion proves just how ridiculous and flat out crazy your rational is.
JP, nope, but God does and his word is very clear.
Funny how many of the arguments are “because most Catholics are not very strict and often go against doctrine there should be no accountability”. Now that STU actually has shown it has a spine you are now up in arms. What if you got a job at a Muslim school and volunteer to pass out condoms and the Tora? What would you expect to happen?!
Simian, I prayed for you. You are obviously one of the lost sheep.
bgsm1th,
Exactly! The liberals say that the rules are being broken so it should be a free for all.
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/law/search/c_final_tier+3/page+2
If you look there it will show St. Thomas is a third-tier law school, not a fourth…jpberka, I’m on the second floor of the library if you want me to show you that.
Simian,
Go down the PP, maybe they can make an exception for you and finish the job your mother didn’t do.
Simian -
You are full of beans when you say that 80% of the abortions are on nonviable pregnancies. Show your statistic with a source for that statistic. You pulled that one out of your backside for certain.
Wow. Your intellect and rational arguments overwhelm me, Mike Potter.
http://www.emusing.com/imgs/page_imgs/images/ugly_man.jpg
A pic of JPBERKA’s MOM
Simian,
Its fun to read what you are writing.
Your logic is very unique in the sense that it doesn’t require a comeback response. It is a comeback to itself.
Your welcome!
Jesse G:
Please check your facts as the official balance sheet of planned parenthood states they colleted over 1 billion in REVENUE and 903 million in EXPENSES. 1 billion profit is completely different. I don’t think lifenews is a credible source. Check the official filings going forward.
This is the right wing using false information to prove their position.
“Nancy says:
May 1st, 2008 at 8:54 am
Thou Shalt Not Kill is pretty self explanatory unless your ignorant.”
Anyone else catch the awesome irony there?
(Pssst…watch your contractions, non-ignorant one)
Nick, thanks but you’re not a shepherd and I’m definitely not a sheep. Again, there is no god, you’re not praying to anyone or anything that will hear you. It’s unfortunate that you’re going to waste this life in the desperate hope that there is an after-life. The good news is that when you eventually die (and I truly hope you have a long life so you eventually realize the truth) if your heart stops first, your brain continues to work for a good 20-30 minutes after that. During which, you’ll realize that you’ve been wrong the entire time you believed.
Mike Potter - Thanks for advocating for abortion. I’m glad to see you’re pro-choice. Let it be said here first that MIKE POTTER IS PRO-ABORTION, PRO-DEATH!!!
Three cheers for St. Thomas! They have absolutely no reason to apologize for upholding Catholic Doctrine. I don’t think it’s a secret St. Thomas is a Catholic School. If you have a problem with that, don’t attend.
Catholics piss me off…
This nastiness and labeling is getting ridiculous. People are complicated. My mother can’t stand our president, leans strongly toward social justice and volunteerism, attends a catholic church, is pro-life, and is a liberal democrat. All of this back and forth name calling is absurd. Everyone I know thinks about these issues beyond the labels. And no one “loves” or prefers abortions. Some people believe that the option should be safe and legal. It’s a painful, difficult choice. People don’t have abortions for amusement, and the reasons they have them are many, including rape, incest, and unviable fetuses. Nothing is as black and white as some of you choose to see this issue.
Simian, your stupidity amazes me. I was being sarcastic.
If you don’t like the school’s policies, then go to a different school. Tolerance has been redefined to mean that you can do whatever YOU want and no one has the right to disagree with you. Grow up. Freedom of association works both ways, not just in your favor.
Graff, As a person with an English degree from St. Thomas, I noticed the lack the “your”. lol.
Simian, God exists just as much as you do. You can deny Him all you want because you don’t want to own up to the sin in your life. Someday you will stand before Him and give an account to all the lies you are speading to deny that He exists. God have merci on your soul that day.
As a current St. Thomas student I understand that I don’t make all the rules but as a consumer they certainly never asked me about my stance on Abortion before they cashed my tuition check.
Although it is a good thing that Jesus didn’t go to St. Thomas, they wouldn’t let him intern with all the prostitutes and tax collectors, which was some of his best work.
CMC,
Go back and read. The intolerance comes from the leftists posting. They bash the church, labeled those who disagree Nazis and fascists. They are only tolerant of those with there own beliefs. I’m not a coward and believe strongly in what is right. Even though I am a minority on this left leaning newspaper’s web site.
broad uneducated statements piss me off…
Tom,
Ignorance of the rules is not an excuse. Thats like shooting someone and saying to the judge that you didn’t know it was illegal to kill people.
Thou shalt not kill? Where are the protesters against the deaths of Iraqi citizens and refugees in Darfur? Hypocrisy rules the Catholic Church. How many American Catholics actually follow ALL church doctrines? Only one that I have ever met and I married into a LARGE Catholic family twenty plus years ago, and it is not a family member.
St. Thomas is well within their rights to limit the kinds of charity work counts for college credit. However, they need to recognize that they are actively downplaying their Catholic identity when recruiting students, and then being surprized when their student body doesn’t share their beliefs. If St. Thomas wants to be a Catholic institution, it had best be prepaired for the reduced student diversity, number of applicants, and tuition revenue being so exclusive entails. This is a case of both the students and the school wanting to have it both ways.
David said “Tolerance has been redefined to mean that you can do whatever YOU want and no one has the right to disagree with you. Grow up. Freedom of association works both ways, not just in your favor.”
I completely agree. The leftist liberals are the ones that are not tolerant. They don’t respect anyone that has a difference of opinion. They scream and yell, and name call.
Tom, great point. St. Thomas Law School would not let students do internships with many of the areas where Jesus did some of his greatest works and teachings. Just because you are against an act, that does not mean that you cannot be there to help out in other areas that are done in the same location. Did Jesus never go into the courtyard to preach even though prostitution occurred there? Did he never go out into various homes where adultery and fornication occurred and never teach them the Word of God? No. He went everywhere in order to help all those who were around Him. To classify PP by just one their activities is ignorant and sells short many of the other great works that they do.
If you don’t agree with the policies that a private Catholic university has, then you shouldn’t attend that school. It’s not a public university - they can have rules based on the beliefs of its religious affliation and they have every right to enforce them. If you don’t like that, go somewhere else.
It is worth noting, as others have here, that the school didn’t say she can’t volunteer there on her free time - that they do not have the right to do. What they said is that she can’t get credit for it at the university.
Robert,
I agree with you completely.
To quote Mike Potter:
“Go down the PP, maybe they can make an exception for you and finish the job your mother didn’t do.”
“your stupidity amazes me. I was being sarcastic.”
You’re doing a great job of showing how tolerant you are. Pot, meet kettle.
Mike Potter - Aaah, the comeback of all comebacks. Rather than take on the comment itself, you resort to name-calling. BRAVO. What is “stupid,” actually it’s quite comical, is your inability to put together a cogent argument as to why, in your opinion, I’m wrong.
All Others - For those of you who want to know where I get my statistics on the number of unviable pregnancies as a percentage of all abortions. No, I didn’t pull them from my backside and I’m not full of beans. I have a close relative who works for one of the largest health care providers in the state (coincidentally the relative is pro-life) and that relative is the one who has access to the statistic. The statistic IS real and accurate (if not a little low).
Jeff and Tom,
It’s not a great point. This ACLU wannabe was not there to “save souls”. She was there to help an organization that helps people destroy a life. It does not compare with Jesus who helped the lost.
Don’t worry… Borton will end up working for the ACLU defending rapists, child molesters, perverts, God haters and every other liberal loser out there. I’m sure Hitlery Clinton will hire this bimbo.
My point about the rules that St. Thomas enforces is that they turn a blind eye to them when it benefits the institution. I don’t necessarily disagree with the position St. Thomas took, but it seems Disingenuous on their behalf to take her money with the views she has.
Mike Potter, I noticed you didn’t comment on my part about Jesus being an intern at St. Thomas.
Simian, you can get off your knees and stop kissing Borton’s feet anytime now.
Simian,
You have tried to discredit me by saying the same liberal drivel you always spew. You are wrong brother!
This is a quote from you earlier in this blog today. “So all of you whacked out, fascist “Pro-Lifers” need to keep your nazi viewpoints to yourself.’
How do you know her intentions? Are you really her and this is one big practical joke? I hope so.
Simian - Thanks for your evidences. Let’s see - descending from 3 races, fine, the Bible does mention Noah’s 3 sons, Shem, Ham and Japeth and that all races descend from them. Also, through DNA testing we see that humanity has common ancestry. Also, language - how do you know humans made up language? Where you there when this happened? Interesting that you claim humans came up with the “concept of God”, whereas God claims He made humans and is the Creator of everything. Both things can’t be true. The reason I believe God made us and not that we made god is the evidence I have encountered for this in our world, and in my personal life. Obviously, we could argue our points for days. What I’d like you to remember is this - respect those who see the world around them differently than you do, and don’t make truth claims for something you cannot prove. Remember that everything in this world, including Christianity, is tainted by our sin, and that is what repulses you. The true light of the world stepped down into darkness to save you. Read the book of John in the Bible and see if you don’t find the story at least somewhat compelling. Grace to you,
Every few months, St. Thomas shines in the media for its continued lack of support towards true social justice - utilizing Catholic identity as its shield. Let’s not forget the issue was addresses by the Tommie of the Year whose commencement speech condemned the use of contraceptives as a sign of selfishness.
UST, shame on you for casting Catholic doctrine into academic opportunties!
Factchecker, you’re right, $1B in profit is much different than revenue. However, “the official balance sheet of planned parenthood states they colleted over 1 billion in REVENUE and 903 million in EXPENSES”- that shows a pretty hansome profit, would you agree? Why are we giving tax dollars to an organization that performs abortions, an act that is opposed by a great majority of Americans??
Nick, I guess that means Borton will be defending you. Oh and I’ll get off my kneews as soon as you stop raping that little boy you’re screwing right now. And tell Mike Potter to get his puny tool out of the poor little boys mouth.
I’m just wondering, is PP the only organization that is on the “Do not volunteer list” or are there other non-grata charities?
To be consistent with their rationale for censoring/restricting her choice, wouldn’t non-Catholic religious charities be off-limits because we all know that the Catholic church is the one true church and the other religions promote heresy. Or what about organizations that serve gay/lesbians or AIDS victims? Exactly how much should the perspective charity be in lock-step with the churches doctrines. Let the charity who is w/o sin cast the first stone!
Thank God I went to St John’s U, where at least they take a more open view of other faiths and points of view. UST needs to get their act together and quit trying to be a competitor to the
U of MN…..
Jesse G. asks: “Why are we giving tax dollars to an organization that performs abortions, an act that is opposed by a great majority of Americans??”
I guess the same reason we are spending trillions of tax dollars on the Iraq war, which is an act that is opposed by a great majority of Americans.
Simian, you’re a classic loser who blames everyone else for your problems in life. Go work for Hitlery and the rest of the libtards who want to destroy this country.
Tom and Jeff
You are wrong about Jesus. While He did go and eat with sinners and talk with them to try to help them, He tried to get them to follow him and turn away from their evil ways. PP does not try to discourage women from getting an abortion, they give it out as solution to a “problem”.
The analogy is not accurate in my opinion.
Dulce Monterrubio,
Its a Catholic school for crying out law. Shame on you!
Ingrid, I’ll keep my viewpoints to myself, when you bible-banging zealots do the same. Keep your religion to yourself. And don’t pray for me, don’t say “god bless” don’t say “grace unto you.” Because it’s all the same hypocritical bologna.
As an alumni of St. Thomas, I say that that she knows it is a Catholic University, so why would you even consider Planned Parenthood a good choice for a place to get credit. THINK young child! Basic church doctrine teaches you that abortion is wrong and therefore supporting Planned Parenthood would be wrong. There are HUNDREDS of organizations to work with in the Twin Cities area. I think perhaps you wanted to open a can of worms?!
Simian,
You must have been a partial birth abortion gone wrong. When they grabbed your head at 8 months old and drilled a hole in your head and sucked your brains out, they must have left a few cells.
The only way Mengler can act consistent with Catholic doctrine is to deny any student’s request to intern with the Republican party. They’re platform is pro-death penalty, which is anathema to Catholic teaching. We are witnessing intellectual dishonesty on Mengler’s part in that abortion clinics are off limits, but pro-death penalty political parties are perfectly fine to associate with.
As a UST Law Grad and someone who regularly defends “rapists, child molesters, perverts, and God haters” at the Public Defender’s Office, can I just ask that we dial down the rhetoric here?
Abortion is probably the single most dividing political/moral issue in America right now. I happen to be a non-Catholic, pro-choice, anti-abortion supporter of the decision by the Dean.
We can’t all be summed up through “liberal” or “conservative” labels.
Let’s have some respect!
Simian… God Bless You!!! Grace be unto you!!! And I am praying for your soul!!!!
Liberals scream and yell and name call…that’s a laugh. Do you read your own posts before you submit them?
As for wishing hell upon me or anyone else- what I have found so interesting about some christians is the very lack of Christ-like behavior from them. If Jesus heard some of these comments he would be appalled. It is this sort of hypocrisy that de-legitimatizes your profession of faith. You are not christians. You are something else, and that thing you are is very dark and destructive.
Planned Parenthood is instrumental in preventing who knows how many unwanted pregnancies each year. It goes without saying that if those pregnancies were not prevented, many of them would end up terminated.
UST has the right to enforce whatever rules they feel are necessary. I just hope the law student continues to pursue volunteering at Planned Parenthood. The work they do is vital to the health and well being of millions of low income people every year. No other agency or organization does what it does.
My donation check, courtesy of George Bush’s stimulus plan, will be in the mail on or around May 9.
Peter…..you had the best response. If she wants to volunteer on her own, she is free to do it.
The best way to help people find God is to send the volunteers to where people need them the most. I believe they should allow her to volunteer there.
CMc,
You are right; people are complicated. I could share some things about myself that may lead one to label me “liberal” and yet I hold several other beliefs which would be termed “conservative”. I understand religion is a highly emotional topic, but the hostile personal attacks are too much.
Anyone notice the pic displayed is of the St Thomas campus in St Paul, not the actual law school which is in downtown Mpls?
CTE… It takes a low life to defend a low life. Might as well join the ACLU.
When St. Thomas opened its law school a few years ago it was not because more lawyers needed to be trained in Minnesota, in fact there are hundreds of unemployed lawyers in the the state… the only reason I speculate that they opened the school is to make money and support the catholic doctrine, this kind of reaction therefore should be expected
Hey Nick…you’re a dickhead.
-Nick
Honestly, what is wrong with you people!?
“UST, shame on you for casting Catholic doctrine into academic opportunities!” Are you people serious!? They’re a PRIVATE CATHOLIC INSTITUTION!! What people do in their own time is their business, but UST has absolutely NO obligation to give them academic credit for it. If this lady feels so strongly about PP, I better see her there every Saturday “fighting the good fight” even if it’s not for academic credit or SHE is the hypocrite, no UST.
Furthermore, UST is only getting pulled through the mud because for whatever reason, Strib seemingly focuses solely on the problems at UST and has no interest in what’s happening elsewhere at other local places of higher education. These types of struggles take place at every University in the country, but Strib is only interested in dragging UST down. For what reason, I don’t know.
A different Nick… You’re a raping liberal God hating scumbag…
Simian - duly noted - may it be unto you as you wish. I never said you should keep your viewpoints to yourself, but I did ask you to respect the viewpoints of others, not trash them. That’s all.
A different Nick - well said! Thanks for the good humor 
Jesse G:
Please note than even many national christian value based non-profits hold many millions on hand at the end of the year. So Planned Parenthood is no different.
For instance, if you look at Focus on the Family’s year end balance sheet you’d see that they have 78 million profit at the end of the year. What is the difference there?
Very similar situation. PLEASE check your own facts and stop relying on lifenews.com, which will obvisouly be a biased source.
Graff -
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
I can’t even enjoy the usual bantering back an forth. Man… okay… let her rip folks!
And now back to the right-wing facists and the liberal pinkoes… (which is a new one to me).
Do those adjectives always go together, or did you customize the list just for me?
-Nick
Still praying for you Simian…
This makes me feel embarrassed to be a student of St. Thomas. America is supposed to protect people’s freedom of religion, and St. Thomas doing the exact opposite.
Ingrid - fair enough.
A different Nick. Just for you. You’re special at this moment. LOL
Nick and Mike Potter,
What is your objective in hurling personal insults all over the place?