A bleary-eyed, press box view of extra-inning chaos
Posted on May 20th, 2008 – 12:45 AMBy Joe Christensen
Twins pitcher Livan Hernandez was in the on-deck circle, working on his swing, when Howie Clark delivered the game-winning hit in Monday’s 7-6, 12-inning victory over Texas.
A few minutes later, we writers were in the hallway outside the Twins’ clubhouse, trying to unscramble our brains. I decided the only thing that could have made this night any zanier was a Livan pinch-hit, walk-off grand slam, with a mosh-pit celebration at home plate.
Loyal readers, there might have been no game story. At that point, I might have closed the computer and called it a career.
The first deadline was 9:45. So I spent the first part of the game, crafting a story about Alexi Casilla’s unlikely three-run homer helping Boof Bonser get his first win of May.
OK, then Boof made the error. So as that first deadline approached, the story became a hodge-podge — Guerrier saves the day, Texas still takes the lead against Reyes — and then, of course, Mauer ties it in the ninth with a single.
Fortunately, we have an excellent copy desk at the Star Tribune, especially the gifted Ken Chia, who saves me time after time. I’m sure he took care of me for those first editions, which had to be off the floor about 10:15.
My next deadline was 11 p.m. And it seemed like a gift from sports writer heaven when Bobby Korecky nearly pulled this 11th-inning trifecta — first major league hit, first major-league run, first major-league win.
I had the story all set to go. But then, Morneau struck out, and Cuddyer grounded out, stranding Korecky at third. (Cuddyer stranded nine runners on base tonight, by the way.)
Well, it was sort of back to the drawing board at that point. Slot editor Jeff Rivers told me he needed something by the end of the 12th inning, even if it was a running story (ie: the game was in the 13th inning when this edition of the Star Tribune went to press), and this wound up saving me.
I had to make that story look like it was finished, even if the game wasn’t. So, I was pretty well prepared when Clark hit the game-winner. Of course, I had no contingency plan for a Livan pinch-hit, or a Livan walk-off. I think my head would have just exploded.
By the way, only four other Twins pitchers (besides Bobby Korecky) had come to bat for the Twins in an American League game since the DH rule was instituted in 1973. None of them got a hit like Korecky did, but here’s the list:
1. Vic Albury on July 12, 1975 at New York (Pat Dobson struck him out).
2. Bill Campbell on July 12, 1975 at New York (Pat Dobson struck him out, too).
3. Ray Fontenot on Aug. 24, 1986 at Toronto (Tom Henke struck him out.)
4. Allan Anderson on June 13, 1989 vs. Seattle (Jerry Reed struck him out.)
5. Matt Garza on July 6, 2007 at Chicago (He struck out and grounded out against Gavin Floyd).
195 Responses to "A bleary-eyed, press box view of extra-inning chaos"
crazy as hell.
That game was awesome.
It’s time for Rincon to go away. I realize Neshek is out for the year….but this guy either can’t or won’t throw strikes. Maybe he should have stuck to the ‘roids…
that game is what baseball is all about.
Also I think the lineup needs to be changed around a little to try and spark some magic.
Let me know what you think.
Gomez - more atbats more magic
Harris - a professional hitter
Mauer - baby jesus (infant power)
Young - better pitches between the M’s
Morneau - more runner on base!
Monroe/Kubel - better pitches in front
Cuddyer - He is struggling mightily
Lamb - Is still our best bet at 3rd
Casilla - until Tolbert gets back Casilla better play most every single day because Everett is playing like crap, and when Pun-terrible comes back that man had better be sweeping the dugout, and begging to warm up the pitcher between innings so he can be on the field during a game!
I wonder what the odds are that 1 player will strand nine people on base in 1 game?
pay should be based on performance as in most other jobs. cuddyer would be eating beans and weiners!
BC, I like the idea of Mauer hitting 2nd, and you don’t want to bury Morneau to far in the lineup.
I’d slot Harris between Monroe/Kubel and Cuddyer (Yeah, I’m about as high on him as you are at the moment).
That keeps Morneau batting at least fourth, and gives Young a chance for some ABs when you could have Gomez and Mauer on base and Morneau waiting behind him.
If Mauer’s on base, they’ll have to go after Young so Morneau doesn’t come up with 2 on.
Also, I’m glad Livan didn’t get the walk off hit.
Because if he had, I’m almost certain I would’ve woken up to find that the Twins had actually lost that game 6-5 in the ninth.
The Twins should consider sending Boof to the bullpen and Guerrier to the starting rotation. Like we saw again last night, Boof seems to be susceptible for the big bad inning. Leave him out there long enough and it will eventually go bad. If you put him in the bullpen, you can send him out for 1-2 innings or until he gets a few people on base, then replace him. Guerrier bailed him out again last night. Remember, Guerrier started early in his career and could stretch out to be a good starter. He has matured a lot, can throw up to 92-93 mph has a great curve and could be a solid 4 or 5 starter. We need another 4.00 ERA guy right now. Sure, Guerrier’s been good in the bullpen, but we need more quality starters to take the strain off the pen right now.
Starting 5:
1) Livan
2) Baker (when healthy)
3) Blackburn
4) Perkins
5) Guerrier
Well, I for one, don’t like the idea of Boof to the pen. Right now, we need guys who stretch it into the 7th inning and, frankly, Boof is one of those guys.
Our bullpen is a weakness right now, but if you take Boof from the starting staff, that then becomes the weakness.
Maybe once we get Slowey back up to snuff, it would be okay, but right now, we need Boof right were he is. Boof is actually an innings eater this year, and I think he can keep it going too.
Right now, of the starting pitching staff, Hernandez is leading at around 6 1/2 innings per start, Blackburn around 6 1/3 innings, and then comes Boof at right under 6.
Perkins, in two starts is right at six as well.
Man, our starting pitching maybe isn’t a strength right now either 
Exactly my point, Boof can’t make it 6 innings and then he is always susceptible to the big blow up inning and its too late to catch up. This puts too much stress on the bullpen and that is one of the reasons they are not performing as well this year. Who needs that kind of an innings-eater?
Guerrier has matured, has starter’s velocity, a sub 4.00 ERA, a great curve and presence on the mound the younger guys don’t have yet. He has been a starter before and could stretch out innings over time.
So send Boof and Slowey to the pen to perfect their stuff and gain their confidence…they might get to where Guerrier is in a year or two where you just can’t keep them out of the rotation.
brilliant managing job gardy!! way to pull one out with deft moves and clever switches.
at this point of the season cuddy would be our all star selection with his clutch hitting. man has he been bad!
We can’t move Matty out of the pen, he’s too valuable there, and there are just as many servicable arms that we could supplement that spot with. I’m still not ready to give up on boof yet though.
we have 20 starting pitching prospects in the minors I would use as a 5th starter before taking Guerrier out of hte pen. That man is the lynch pin to our success now that Neshek is out
Me Too says:
May 20th, 2008 at 7:59 am
Well, I for one, don’t like the idea of Boof to the pen. Right now, we need guys who stretch it into the 7th inning and, frankly, Boof is one of those guys.
Our bullpen is a weakness right now
Sounds familiar hmmmmmm……
Joe,
I was wondering after the game, was the clubhouse any different than a regular old win. Were the guys acting a bit goofy, or is it just the fans
Alright, since no one else wants to do it, I will… I like Boof and he isn’t nearly as bad as people here make him out to be. He has gone at least 6 innings in 8 of his 10 starts and has allowed 3 runs or less in six of his 10 starts. Also, he is not now, and probably will never be, our ace. He is more like a 3 or 4 starter and as such he is doing a fine job. Please try to remeber that and be a little nicer. Thank you.
Boof actually threw ok last night. He is just waaaay too inconsistant for my liking as a starter. Then I question myself is Boof a good candidate for the Bullpen. Boof gives up runs in the first inning generally and a bullpen mr or lr gut can not just come in and give up runs right away. The starter who Boof came in for would be furious. Did anyone see LaPanata’ hair last night because I missed it.
Boof just needs to limit the terrible inning or 2 he throws out there every start….he looks great half the time, and then he throws meatballs down the middle.
While I’m glad we got the win last night, that game lasted 3 innings longer than it should have thanks to our manager. There’s simply no excuse for Gardy not having someone up and ready to pitch in the 7th, considering Boof (as countless games over the last two years have shown) always runs out of gas around the 5th or 6th inning. I’m not ragging on Bonser, he’s a serviceable 4th or 5th starter, but if he gives Gardy 6 solid innings he needs to count his blessings and turn it over to the bullpen. In my opinion, Gardy left him out there 2 batters too long, which is simply unacceptable given Boof’s track record of melting down.
Can we, now bring back all the players and staff that we cut, released or traded after Sunday’s disaster?
We need to avoid a forfeit today and we will be short of personnel if we don’t bring them back.
I realize that the players that we knee-capped will be unable to play today…..
I am equally concerned about generating some offense from Cuddyer and Delmon Young.
So we’re just totally ignoring the subsequent bullpen melt down then are we Special K. It’s not like those middle guys, which is all that’s left out there now that Nesek is on the shelf, have been eating up the league lately.
Lets bring up Mulvey and see what happens and maybe start him out in the bullpen
While Cuddyer did NOT have a good game last night, Morneau did come up twice with the winning run at 3rd and 1 out and failed to get the runner in either time…
sane they never left just went to their hotel rooms and waited for a win so they’d get called back. besided there isn’t anyone out there better which people fail to realize. at this point i’m a lot less worried about young (i know i’m in the minority) than i am with cuddy. cuddy is supposed to be one of our veteran run prodcers and he has been terrible. the finger excuse has expired. young is young and has the talent, we think, plus he is hitting .280, not the worst performance on the team by far. i’d be a lot more concerned about cuddy, everett and lamb before i got as far as young. fix the worst first!
Regarding Boof if you look at his last 5 starts, he has been horrible. He’ll give you a good start every 5, then stink in between.
Remember, finding a good starter that keeps your bullpen from getting over-used is much harder than finding serviceable middle relief pitchers. I know Guerrier is the onnly good one right now, but his value would be higher for this team over the long haul in the starting rotation.
If you switch Guerrier and Boof - it could mean 3-4 more wins over the course of the year and/or 3-4 less losses by getting Boof out of a role where he will probably always be sub .500
In this division, that many games can make a significant difference by year end.
Agreed on Morneau, he has to end that game earlier. 2 chances he had, all he has to do is hit a fly ball or bounce one through a drawn in infield.
Yeah, w/ a grand total of 3 big league starts and having not been in a rotation at any level in 4 seasons, Guerrier is definately the way to go.
I disagree on Morneau it’s time for Cuddyer to start earning that new contract. We can’t expect Morneau to carry this team every night. I’m not saying he carries them every night but he’s been the best hitter on this team this year hands down.
Is there a way that we could send Kubel down and bring up a 3rd catcher and use Redmond more often as a DH. Kind of alternate between him and Monroe and also use Monroe in the outfield as a fill in type role when needed to give the other players a rest (DY especially)
There’s no Bert Blyleven coming through that door. There’s no Jack Morris or Frank Viola or even a Scott Erickson coming through that door. This is a rotation full of 3, 4, and 5 starters. It is what it is. These boys are going to need some help from the sticks if they’re going to win.
In Boof’s 6 quality starts he’s 2-3-1, and we’ve scored a total of 14 runs for him. 7 last night and 7 in the previous 5 quality outings. That’s run support for you.
“Is there a way that we could send Kubel down and bring up a 3rd catcher and use Redmond more often as a DH.”
Redmond is looking more and more like his age is catching up to him this year.
The last thing the Twins need to do is get rid of one of the few guys who’s shown some power to bring up a guy who will likely never play.
Liriano has pitched 3 innings for Rochester so far today. Given up 2 hits, NO WALKS and a strikeout. He’s thrown 25 pitches, 19 for strikes. If you’re bored you can follow along:
T says:
May 20th, 2008 at 10:38 am
“Is there a way that we could send Kubel down and bring up a 3rd catcher and use Redmond more often as a DH.”
Redmond is looking more and more like his age is catching up to him this year.
The last thing the Twins need to do is get rid of one of the few guys who’s shown some power to bring up a guy who will likely never play.
T - In your opinion, do you think Redmond just looks a little off track due to the lack of playing time.
That was one of the worst managed games I have ever seen. Bill Smith should suspend Gardy for a game or two after his performance last night. Unless you get in a situation where a player gets hurt you should never have to send a pitcher up to hit in an AL game. That was just pathetic. I hope the local beat writers ask Gardy what the hell he was doing last night. He says the Twins are going to go back to the basics, when is the Manager going to pull his head out of his arse?
who was Livan going to PH for anyway?
jimmy
The pitcher’s spot was due up next.
Liriano through 4 innings:
4 IP, 3 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 2 K, 41 pitches
Not too bad.
jama and others,
I agree that Gardy made mistakes last night. I find fault with his pitching changes (not recognizing Boof and Rincon needing help soon enough and giving Nathan one inning of 5 pitches in a tie game with little left in the pen).
But, I don’t actually find fault with his 9th inning moves that left us with no DH and here’s why:
We were down a run in the 9th inning. You have to do everything you possibly can to tie or win the game. You don’t worry about what happens in the extra innings because if you do nothing, you don’t win or tie the game.
That has to be your thinking as a manager — to make the moves you think can get you the runs. So, he thought Redman was a better option than Everett. And, he thought Monroe was a better option than .143 avg, lifetime .220 avg, one career HR Casilla. I definitely agree with that.
Does anyone actually think Casilla and Everett had a better chance of tieing the game than Monroe and Redman?
He actually still had options with those moves instead of losing the DH, but I don’t fault the 9th inning moves. (For example, Redmond could catch; Infield could have been Morneau, Mauer, Clark, Lamb or one of them to the OF with Cuddy moving to the IF). But the middle infield of Clark and Harris turned a key DP, and the pitcher got a hit — seems like it worked out just fine.
Kubel, Cuddy and a pitching prospect for Dunn. He runs just as quick as Kubel in the outfield and has far superior power for “tons of runs”
Yes we can put it on Morneau, if he knew how to sac. bunt the game would have been over in the ninth (runner on third, one out), or again in the 11th (runner on third, one out).
A sac. bunt and all the craziness would have been over.
How many suicide squeezes have you seen so far this season? You really expect Morneau to bunt in that situation?
When is Redmond going to play more? Twins need his bat — he’s proven to be a reliable high .280 to .300 make-contact type hitter since he’s been here. Playing once every 8 to 10 days isn’t going to work the kinks out and get him in playing shape. We need to get a body that can fill in as catcher in an emergency, so Red Dog can get some at bats and become a factor on this team again. Maybe we should give him a 3B glove?
“Does anyone actually think Casilla and Everett had a better chance of tieing the game than Monroe and Redman?”
Redmond isn’t hitting well enough to justify giving up your DH and using up your backup catcher.
NICK PUNTO in the outfield again ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
saam says:
May 20th, 2008 at 11:29 am
“Does anyone actually think Casilla and Everett had a better chance of tieing the game than Monroe and Redman?”
“Redmond isn’t hitting well enough to justify giving up your DH and using up your backup catcher.”
Well of course it is! If that is how you tie up or win the game. You do what you need to do and worry about defense later. Otherwise, you end up with a DH and a backup catcher available and a loss. Sheesh!
Carlos G,
I think that radical substitutions are made when you are behind.
If you are tied at home (in the 9th or extra innings), you expect to get chances to win later in the game, so win-it-now desperation substitutions are not mandatory.
Carlos
Redmond isn’t exactly tearing up the league. (And I agree with Sane’s comment above.)
herb the verb says:
May 20th, 2008 at 11:06 am
Yes we can put it on Morneau, if he knew how to sac. bunt the game would have been over in the ninth (runner on third, one out), or again in the 11th (runner on third, one out).
A sac. bunt and all the craziness would have been over
I’m sure every cleanup hitter in baseball would be asked to bunt in that situation.
I remember a game where Jose Canseco played every position in it. I think it would be fun to have lNP do the same. Punto pitching would make me choke on a hoagie.
Deport Juan Rincon and Denny Reyes
Sane I agree with an earlier statement regarding Span. I was against Span coming up with the club but now I want him up with the club. I want to see more competition amongst our players. That might be a little shaking up that the Twins need and could use. Cudaver ha ha ha ha
Average Joe,
Thanks for the link!
“A sac. bunt and all the craziness would have been over”
A sac. bunt with the third baseman back to shorten the baserunner’s leadoff-break from third base would probably gotten Morneau a hit, but the runner on 3B would probably not score.
A squeeze, unless well executed, might have drawn an auto-pitchout.
Then, Morneau would have to bunt a bad pitch.
Two outs - nobody on.
Morneau bunting? Not likely.
He should be swinging, EVEN IF IT FAILS, it is the the correct decision. Unless you factor in hindsight, which is tough to do, REAL TIME.
If only Punto could play every position (at one time) we’d win every game. That’s what we need 8 more Puntos.
what the …. says:
May 20th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
If only Punto could play every position (at one time) we’d win every game. That’s what we need 8 more Puntos
we have 2 Punto’s currently in Punto and Everett. 2 more could be achieved in bringing back my boy Tyner and also acquiring Eckstein.
Ok then, it seems like I have some more defending to do… Gardy - He finally decided to “sub to win” in this game. This is not something he generally does. It was interesting, entertaining, and, well, it worked. Cuddles - I believe Dick and Bert were talking the other day about how he still can’t bend his finger normally and how he may never be able to. Not trying to make an excuse for him, just saying. No, he hasn’t been doing too well lately, but I have confidence that he’ll turn it around. He’s had some hard hit outs…
I would also like to say that I totaly agree with what the… and jimmy bee about LNP. 
I say bring back Augie Ojeda…
what the …. says:
May 20th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
“If only Punto could play every position (at one time) we’d win every game. That’s what we need 8 more Puntos”
I would have to correct you to say “seven more Punto’s”…you would have to have someone in the line up who could hit, preferably a home run.
8 Puntos and one Adam Dunn
“T - In your opinion, do you think Redmond just looks a little off track due to the lack of playing time.”
That could be the case, but with guys like Kubel and Monroe now available to Gardy, the days of catching Redmond and DHing Mauer (or vice versa) need to be over.
But Redmond should not DH as long as Monroe and Kubel are with the team. And they can’t afford to give up what limited hitting they have available at the moment by sending somebody down to bring up a 3rd catcher who would likely play all of 1 game a month.
Move Bonser to the pen when Baker comes back. I don’t think Boof or Slowey are 6-7 inning guys. It isn’t just about stamina - you need enough pitches to keep batters off balance your third or fourth time through the order. On the same note, I don’t know if Guerrerirreier has enough pitches to be a starter. He’s doing great now in his role, I don’t think he should be messed with. Give Bass and Korecky shots at more of the eigth inning-game-on-the-line work. Rincon in a mop-up only role, and then only when you are down five or more runs. Just getting rid of him would be better. I think Crane’s arm is healthy but the control isn’t there. He needs to go down to Rochester.
No Punto, Everett, Tolbert, Ojeda, Eckstein types in an MLB lineup?
You guys should buy season tickets for slow-pitch softball where ten lard-a**es see how far they can hit the ball.
saam and sane,
Which game did you watch last night? We weren’t tied going into the 9th. The radical substitutions were made in order to get it tied. If you don’t get it tied, game is over. It is a loss.
I question Gardy plenty. But, his moves in the 9th were absolutely, spot-on, perfect decisions and the result was we got a run and should have had two runs and won right there if a player delivers. And, his moves on defense resulted in good plays including a DP between 2b/ss (Clark/Harris). And, the pitcher got a hit. And, Clark drove in the winning run which was Gomez. And, Gomez had entered earlier as a pinch runner.
If you want to 2nd guess Gardy and blast him for mistakes, you should at least pick a time when he was wrong.
” You guys should buy season tickets for slow-pitch softball where ten lard-a**es see how far they can hit the ball.”
sane i’ll be selling them tickets to my new Arena baseball league. It’s going to be great with a WWE theme of having huge behemouths on each team just mashing balls out of the park.
speaking of bunting, did anyone else notice how Colorado had back-to-back sacrifice bunts on Sunday…that’s about a month’s worth for us…
Everett failed to get a sac bunt down over the weekend…
yea we do the little things right.
Carlos G you are absolutely, 100 percent wrong / delusional.
The ONLY excuse for a pitcher batting in an AL game is an emergency injury situation like we had last year when our DH had to catch against the White Sox.
I don’t care if Bobby Korecky goes yard in that at-bat…that was embarrassing management by Gardy to have a pitcher bat last night…there’s a reason the Twins haven’t had a pitcher get a hit in an AL game since the DH rule came about!
What’s even more embarrassing about the whole situation is the sequence which caused Korecky to have to hit–that being our use of a .160 singles hitting pinch hitter!!! I love Gardy, but that move was laughably embarrassing and anyone who defends it because we happened to turn a DP and Korecky happened to hit a single is doing nothing more than Kool Aid drinking.
Carlos G,
When do I ever second guess a manager?
If you find such a post from me, it must have been an imposter.
I was only talking about the general case of when desperate substitutions are mandatory, optional or nuts.
Carlos
You are right. The game wasn’t tied.
And I had no objection to bringing in Monroe. My objection, which still stands, was to bringing in Redmond who, buy the way, failed to produce. Redmond is slugging a pathetic .231 which is about the same as Everett’s OBP.
You are free to disagree, as others have. But you can’t pursuade me that the Twins’ chances of winning were helped all that much by a PH who is batting .151.
The homerun is over rated. Ground balls through the infield make the other team work, several get you a run and you wear the other team down. It’s like Chinese water torture, they get demoralized and then you drop a soft line drive over the infielders head and Punto does it better than anyone!
Get back in the lineup Nicky we need you!
Jason,
You are more humorous than intelligent. Especially when it comes to baseball. But, I don’t mind your opinions. It is only when you try to force them on others that I find you to be more than a little annoying.
Facts:
1. Game is over and Twins lose if we don’t score in the bottom of the 9th as we trailed by one.
2. Gardy has to win or tie the game with the bench he has left.
3. Gardy makes two moves… Redmond and Monroe. Of those two moves, the Monroe move works. He gets a walk and later SCORES the tieing run. Thus, allowing the twins to continue playing the game.
4. Gardy did not lose his DH or his backup catcher in the 9th. He lost them when he put Harris into the game defensively in the 10th inning. That turned out to be a wise move in the way the rest of the game played out.
5. Twins won
How can you continue your ridiculous questioning of the moves — which worked and which resulted in a win. Oh, I remember, you are embarrassed. Probably because it worked and you were looking forward to questioning it in a loss.
Whatever. Gardy’s errors last night were pitching moves. His 9th inning substitutions as pointed out carefully above so even you can understand them, were perfect.
You can spend all the time arguing that you want, but the fact of the matter is that we won. If Gardy would have left Everett and Casilla in during the 9th and we lost, you’d all be roasting him about that…
I think I have come to the conclusion that for some of you certain players and/or managers will never do anything right or is it simply that you don’t have LNP to bash since he’s on the DL?
However, I have noticed that after the CO series the Young haters have been oddly quiet… Interesting how a few hits makes people forget about a month of suckage (super technical word)…
Half this board wants Redmond to DH 4 days a week and the other half wants to see him traded to the Phillies along w/ a case of balls for Chris Coste.
Things could be worse (as of right now) …. we could be the Yankees.
Yes we can put it on Morneau, if he knew how to sac. bunt the game would have been over in the ninth (runner on third, one out), or again in the 11th (runner on third, one out).
A sac. bunt and all the craziness would have been over
That is absolutely the most moronic thing I have read since reading Reusse’s last article. Why on earth would you have Morneau bunt with the bases loaded? Go watch your kids t-ball game and learn some fundamentals.
Carlos G and anyone else who doesn’t think I get it….I know we won…I know we needed a run to keep it going in the ninth…simply saying ‘we won’ doesn’t mean the manager did everything right. That’s pretty simplistic thinking if you ask me.
Tell me how Redmond for Everett accomplishes this aim? Nevermind the fact that even if Redmond gets on base (which he does at a lessor rate than Everett), he still has to RUN, what possible justification in the name of necessity is there for putting Redmond in for Everett?
None. None at all. To say “we won” is a downright ignorant response to this.
It was an embarassing move. We won, yes, I get it. I’m happy. But a pitcher should never have to bat in AL game (especially one who hasn’t batted in a game since ‘03) and the fact that Gardy’s short-sightedness was reduced to that reality was, in fact, embarrassing.
It’s okay to admit it–there’s really no shame in it.
“but we won” doesn’t cut it. It was a stupid move on so many levels you can’t even begin to describe it…and oh by the way, it didn’t work…and to me, that’s worth pointing out.
Any fan who defends Gardy’s ninth inning moves, requiring the absence of a DH and no remaining bench moves for extra innings is a really dumb fan. Sorry, but that’s reality. ESPECIALLY when the pinch hitting option was a .160 hitting singles hitter who can’t run.
One more thing, Carlos…you’re not understanding the sequence…without the Redmond pinch hit, there would have been no need for Harris to move from DH to SS…so yes, that was the key move in the sequence which forced someone to grab Nick Freakin Punto’s batting helmet and step to the plate.
Enough said…I am really glad we won, by the way.
No disrespect to Bonser, but he has too many “ups and downs” which makes him a sub-500 pitcher type. I would like to see Liriano to take his place at the rotation (in the next two or three weeks), Rincon released and Boof assigned to the bullpen.
HR fans will be sad by seasons end. Bud Selig let players use steroids in an attempt to produce more HR’s and drive up the tv ratings. Without the use of performance enhancing drugs the HR totals this year will drop considerably. Only an idiot would have actually believed that Sosa Mcgwire and Bonds could have naturally hit 60-70 HR’s for a 3 year period without help of some sort. By seasons end I actually wonder if players will pass the 40 hr mark. Get ready for alot of teams to take on the small ball mentallity
In the interest of full disclosure, one of my points above was flawed (Clark runs for Redmond if he reaches base)…but the overall analysis is the same: bottom line is Gardy wasn’t thinking of how thin he would be in extras if he tied the game with those moves and the only way you can justify that is by saying there was some HUGE advantage you gain by having Redmond hit for Everett and we were down to our last at-bat.
That wasn’t the case; not even close. Face it, Gardy got caught mismanaging in that situation, but winning the game bailed him out. It doesn’t mean he should’ve done it that way, however.
Just in case anyone is interested…
Liriano’s line from today’s game:
7IP 8H 2R 1BB 3K
Twins better keep their options open with him…thanks for the input, JP.
Joshua
Boof actually pitched pretty well last night. He started running out of gas in the 7th, but he was really hurt by his throwing error on a DP ball.
“Tell me how Redmond for Everett accomplishes this aim? Nevermind the fact that even if Redmond gets on base (which he does at a lessor rate than Everett), he still has to RUN, what possible justification in the name of necessity is there for putting Redmond in for Everett?”
Are you serious? Wait. I think you are. Here is the possible justification that you are looking for - Adam Everett’s career numbers are .246/.297/.356. Mike Redmond’s are .291/.347/.366. Redmond gets on base more often than Adam Everett. You need to score a run. It sure helps to have someone on base to do that. Hence, you bat Mike Redmond.
As for having a pitcher bat - who really cares? If Gardy doesn’t use Redmond for Everett, then he uses him for Bobby Korecky and then Brian Bass is in the on deck circle in the 12th because there are no more arms in the bullpen.
After the 5th inning, losing the DH spot in the American League isn’t that big of a deal. How often are pitchers going to throw more than an inning anyway? So you can pinch hit for him.
You can’t worry about the 10th inning of a game if you are losing in the 9th. What good will it do you? Worry about it when you get there.
JP says:
May 20th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Just in case anyone is interested…
Liriano’s line from today’s game:
7IP 8H 2R 1BB 3K
Nice line JP any word on his velocity or the type of pitches he was throwing?
OK, not sure where that came from but anyway.
Jason your whole arguement rest on the idea that Everett is a better hitter than Redmond, which is clearly false, Everett career OPS+ 69, Redmond 89.
You’ve got to pull out all the stops and make every effort to tie/win the game in the bottom of the 9th down 1. Having tied, you’re then obligated to field the best defense possible to give yourself a chance to win it in the bottom of the 10th. I can’t disagree w/ the those moves.
Redmonds 26 AB for the season are a silly thing to hang your hat on. I’m glad Gardy didn’t, he was correct to PH in that spot.
Pete D Redmond’s are .291/.347/.366
10th inning in the 12th After the 5th inning numbers are .246/.297/.356
“stat man”
Pete…two flaws to your logic:
1. If Redmond doesn’t bat for Everett, there would be no need to pinch hit for a pitcher in extras because the DH is still in play
2. Gardy’s ninth inning moves left him out of bench options…not only did he vacate his DH spot, but he vacated his bench…you can’t do both! The end result is pitchers batting the rest of the game…
And you will not convince any sane Twins observer that Redmond had a better chance of reaching base in that situation than Everett.
Defending that sequence of moves is impossible, to me.
bill smith needs to get on the phone with the padres and get us a young infielder that can hit. they need help fast and have an overflow of young guys stuck in the minors, headley and antonelli for 2. if we are building for the future everett and lamb are not the future.
interesting how much better harris looked on the dp at ss, maybe with time the 2b turn will improve.
bison, no one is arguing he made bad defensive moves in the 10th…he did what he had to there.
Again, I get that you need a run to tie it–but not at the expense of having pitchers bat in extras when your “desparation move” involves sending a .160 hitter to the plate with no power (you might defend the move more if Redmond could end the game with a homer). That was an oversight by Gardy (translation: he wasn’t thinking).
On top of everything else, Redmond is your backup catcher and you lose that for extras, as well.
I really can’t believe rational baseball fans are defending that sequence of moves. It’s indefensible.
My favorite “Gardy Move” was Punto playing the outfield the other day
Jason,
how far ahead is a guy supposed to manage in a sudden victory situation?
do you manage the bottom of the 9th for the bottom of the 11th? I don’t think that you do.
You’ve got to stop with the .160 thing, too. It’s 26 ABs. If ANYONE thought he were really a .160 hitter he wouldn’t have a job. Oh, BTW Redmond’s career SLG is better than Everett’s as well, even without adjusting for 1,000 Everett ABs in the juice box.
I rest by my previous comments for the most part…I acknowledged you need a run there…just not at that expense…what from Redmond this season convinces you he has a better chance of reaching base in that situation than Everett…cause I’ve watched every game and nothing would convince me of that.
But for the sake of argument, let’s say he does have some fraction of a better chance of reaching base than Everett, how does that small fraction possibly justify putting yourself in the spot you do for extra innings? Remember, one run doesn’t win you the game.
So yeah, managing does require some foresight–it’s not too much to ask.
jimmy i’m trying to think of themes for the Twins PR department to use that follow the 7 deadly sins. They covered Gluttony last night. Next they should have the Red Sox play in our place to cover Envy. Then for Greed they could make everyone pay triple the price for tickets and concessions. Any ideas for Sloth,Wrath,Pride and Lust?
Punto is the best athlete, player and all around nice guy on the team and probably the best outfielder as well.
Notice our record with him on the DL.
Well you do bring up a good point in all of that delusion, bison: The Twins might as well start their backup catcher search now because Redmond can be replaced any day now as far as I’m concerned…
Jason -
You are correct. If we don’t pinch hit for Adam Everett, we still have Harris at DH. Instead, we have a guy hitting .191 on the season (and under .240 each of the 2 previous seasons) hitting every 9 at bats.
However. If you save your back up catcher for emergency use only, then you have shortened your bench by one player anyway.
You HAVE to score a run in the 9th. It doesn’t matter who is going to bat in the 10th, 11th, or 23rd innings. You need to score, and you need to score within the next three outs. You use your best players to accomplish that.
“Any ideas for Sloth,Wrath,Pride and Lust?”
Sloth: Morneau, and Lamb attempt stolen bases.
Wrath: The first opposing hitter to knock in an RBI gets beaned the next time up.
Pride: Take some of the more severe second-guessers and allow them to manage a game.
Lust: Trade for a guy like Atkins…
NOTE: *Sloth* should actually be “Morenau and Lamb attempt a double steal“
Sloth: Coomer in the all you can eat section.
Sloth is the way Kubel presents himself after all the hard work he put into getting to the bigs.
Wrath is the weather we will go through that mother nature will provide the Twins fans with for attempting to build an outdoor stadium
Pride is what Twins fans will feel during the 2-3 days of summer we get annualy where we can actually watch a game outside.
Lust is what all the ladies do while Mauer is up at da plate…..
Try to think up others
Jason….. If Redmond were given the same amount of at bats as Everett I would take Reds at bats and production anytime over Everetts. I wonder if your views would be the same at the end of the season ir the Twins were to win the division by a half game.
Sorry BC, haven’t found any more info on Liriano’s outing yet. The minor league GameDay doesn’t show pitch type/speed like the major league GameDay does… I’ll let you know if I find out anytime soon…
Lust could be what we feel as Twins fans everytime we are in a 1-1 9th inning tie and AROD comes onto the new Jumbotron hitting another HR during a Yankee replay
.191 is better than .151; plus, if you can’t get the second run in (whether it be the 10th, 11th, or 23rd inning, what’s the point of scoring the tying run?)
I agree that bottom of the ninth when you are trailing is desparation time–I’ve already admitted as much at the outset–the issue here is HOW desparate?
To me, using Redmond as a pinch hitter in that spot doesn’t give you enough of an advantage (I argue it gives you no advantage) to justify the amount of desparation you will proceed the rest of the game with.
We are making way too much of a very simple concept: no AL manager (even ones who trail in the bottom of the ninth) put themselves in a situation where your pitchers will be batting if the game extends itself!
Just admit that was a mistake and move on. Gardy probably would even admit he would have done it differently in retrospect.
No it wouldn’t Gman because pinch hitting Redmond for Everett did nothing to change the outcome of last night’s game; Redmond grounded out…Monroe reaches base regardless.
BC-Instead of me being mean to Kubel I will name players or items in a clubhouse or ballpark that I would like less then Kubel.
1/ Everetts Jock strap
2/ spit pile of sunflower seeds
3/ Ben Gay
Try it it’s fun you should name a few
BC for “Lust” what jimmy bee will feel at home after he sees the new jumbotron and has to go home to a 50 inch plasma
“We are making way too much of a very simple concept: no AL manager (even ones who trail in the bottom of the ninth) put themselves in a situation where your pitchers will be batting if the game extends itself!”
They should. If they don’t, then they might not be doing everything they can to win the game.
And again - small sample sizes. Had Redmond gotten a hit yesterday, his batting average would have been .192. As it is, today it sits at .154. If he gets a hit in his next at bat, he jumps to .185. When a guy only has 25 at bats on a season, you can’t look at his batting average and say - this guy is worse than this other guy. Especially if their careers don’t agree with that. Redmond is the better hitter. He just is. His career numbers show it.
We can even look deeper into the numbers. In his career, Redmond hits lefties at the rate of .329/.386/.433. That’s a great line. Pinch hitting Redmond in the ninth inning against a left hander when you are down a run is the best move Gardy could have made, and I’m glad he did.
Pete–
You can look deeper into the numbers or you can face reality: Don’t you think there’s a reason that we have a guy on our inept hitting roster who only has 26 ABs? I think pointing that out works against you. If he was so freakin good he should be DH’ing more often like they had him doing last year for a while.
Has anyone heard anything regarding the Twins jumbotron at the new stadium. I wonder if it will be like the KC jumbotron.
imo you have beat the gardy/pinch hit, pitcher hitting should have could have to death. Get back to bashing vavra and punto or young or everett or lamb or ……………….. like every other day.
KC jumbotron is the best in baseball
Jason -
Absolutely I think there is a reason he is on our roster. He’s our back up catcher. However, considering our starting catcher is one of the best players on our team, our DH situation isn’t nearly as dire as it has been in the past, and the number of off days we have had this year, he hasn’t had the opportunity to play much.
What in know is this - he is a better hitter than Adam Everett. Can he play shortstop? Nope. But in the bottom of the ninth inning in a game that you are behind, you don’t think about that. You think about scoring enough runs to tie the game first, then you think about winning. I don’t care if that means that Joe Nathan had to go out to shortstop in the top of the 10th inning. At least there is a top of the 10th.
Jason says:
May 20th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
KC jumbotron is the best in baseball
I think it is cool and I am wondering if the 10 mill towards the new jumbotron will get one similiar to KC’s. Any idea on what KC’s cost them to design.
Each seat will have a headrest with a 13″ plasma screen in it for the person sitting behind to watch. Interactive so you can bring your lap top or phone and blog while at the game.
jimmy for lust why don’t they trot out some young hot cheerleaders between innings instead of that gay bear.
For envy they could also use an Anthony LaPanta toupee giveaway.
Stadium guru says:
May 20th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
Each seat will have a headrest with a 13? plasma screen in it for the person sitting behind to watch. Interactive so you can bring your lap top or phone and blog while at the game.
OMG a jumbotron with a blog can you imagine how many times jimmy and i would be posting on that sucker.
Something needs to be done with the 5th spot in the lineup. Cuddy is hitting BAD and it is starting to impact Morneau’s at bats (he saw nothing good to hit last night). Even though Young is not “doing it” for many people in this blog, move him to 5th to at least try it. Can’t get worse to what happened last night. And give Monroe the heads up. If he keeps up those (very) lazy swings he has been taking, trade/release him and bring up Span.
Pete D…do you have a man crush on Mike Redmond? He’s not getting it done anymore…you really think this team can afford to play around with .240 hitting Kubel or other patchwork DHs if Redmond was the hot hitter you say he is?
And your Joe Nathan at SS in the 10th remark…you can make that statement for hyperbole if you want, but again, no AL manager in baseball would set themselves up for a situation like that; just like no AL manager in baseball, except Ron Gardenhire, apparently, would set themselves up for the possibility of extra innings where your pitchers bat…
you take your chances with Everett there, I can’t believe we’re still debating this…there is no debate.
Like I said, I bet even Gardy would say, ‘looking back on it, I shouldn’t have put us in that spot’.
Greed - I want a dead racoon that looks like Anthony LaPanta’s hair piece.
Giant Jumbotron blog wheeeew. Maybe this one I can put graphics on like others I have seen in the past. I am great with graphics and Photoshop BC
As for last night I think we should cool it on Gardy bashing. Point being the Twins won. What is more important. The only time I second guessed Gardy’s choices is the Punto in the outfield thing. I think he is a good coach.
And the seats will have built in coolers, lift up the pad and a cold six pack of beer (buy your seats by which section has your favorite beer) and a bag of peanuts. Class all the way. If you’re lucky enough to be next to a non drinker you get a 12 pack, happy days at the park!
Sit and blog and drink beer, nearly as good as watching the game at home. (bathroom is further away)
he made a mistake, it’s no biggie…Gardy’s a good coach and a good man…but it was a mistake–one that lacked some basic baseball foresight. I’m not Gardy-bashing, and I’m glad we won…I think Ron Gardenhire has been fantastic for the Twins…in fact, I have a autographed Gardenhire ball in my car right now…but second-guessing comes with the territory of being an everyday baseball fan.
I’m only going on about it because there are people here who think it was a sound decision. That’s baffling to me.
I think Stadium guru is a genius. Could you design my new house or at least my TV room? My wife can do whatever she want’s with the rest of the house but i want like 15 TV’s in there and a wet bar for sure. I’m also getting a Nick Punto fathead to put on the wall so i can throw crap at it when the Twins are losing.Any other ideas?
Jason - Wow, a Gardy baseball would be great. How did you get that?
a friend who played in Gardy’s foursome at John Gordon’s golf tournament obtained it for me…was a classy move on both their parts.
Jason -
Ok. I’m done. If you can’t see the difference between Redmond being a pinch hitter for Adam Everett and being our full time designated hitter, this argument will never go anywhere. All I tried to do was show you that Mike Redmond was more likely to get on base than Adam Everett. I guess I have failed.
Stadium guru says:
May 20th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Sit and blog and drink beer, nearly as good as watching the game at home. (bathroom is further away)
From what I have heard is you are given a catheter so you won’t have to leave the blog for any amount of time.
Way cool Jason, a Gardy baseball would be very nice and I would be proud of that memorabilia. Get a Gardy Bobblehead to go with it and it would be a nice set.
Jason
I agree with you, but I’m not baffled that others disagree. A lot of folks are frustrated by the fact that Everett’s bat is even worse than advertised. I wouldn’t have done what Gardy did, but I don’t think it was a completely stupid move either. In some ways I’m glad he did it because it made things more interesting and it showed some guts.
jimmy if they added a retractable metal canopy on each chair to protect you from the elements would you stay in Mn?
BC could we have a CP night. For the first lucky 20,000 fans you are given an adult diaper. After the 7th inning everyone sharts themselves then goes and short changes the hot dog vendor.
Lust & envy: jimmy bee’s feelings toward Jason’s Gardy ball…
I guess I kind of can respect that, saam, but I also think you’re giving him too much credit…I honestly think it just slipped Gardy’s mind that he may have to have pitchers bat in extra innings if he went with the Redmond, Monroe combo…I think if someone pulls him aside and says ‘you know, Gardy, if you make these moves and the game ends up going extras, you’re going to have no choice but to put Bobby Korecky in the batter’s box in the 11th inning’ he probably waits a moment and says, ‘you know, on second thought, i think i’ll leave Adam Everett in there’.
lol it’s just a baseball…i’ve actually played catch with it tailgaiting in KC and Milwaukee before…
BC of ND says:
May 20th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
jimmy if they added a retractable metal canopy on each chair to protect you from the elements would you stay in Mn?
Yes BC then I would stay. Though the first sign of tornado sirens blaring while it is snowing out and I will running for shelter. I must move quick through the stands while I am eating and running or a lightning bolt will strike me in the ass
JP says:
May 20th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Lust & envy: jimmy bee’s feelings toward Jason’s Gardy ball…
yes you are right I would love that and also the throwing it in KC at the game wheeeew really fun.
That is the final straw, Jason!!! You are allowed to ridicule whoever you want on the team, have silly arguments where you stress the same point repeatedly, or whatever, but there is no - and I mean no - way I can forgive you for being so cavalier with your Gardy ball! Inexcusable! As punishment you must give your Gardy ball to jimmy bee as he will give it the respect it deserves.
Hmm.. maybe I went too far? Alright, I’ll go back to work…
I just checked and it looks like this is the first major league start for Doug Mathis so i know this won’t be good tonight. Why do the Twins always seem to struggle against pitchers they’ve never faced befoere?
Jason
I don’t know what Gardy was thinking, but I think the move gives us some idea what he thinks of Adam Everett.
JP If given, I will respect the gardy ball with class. I would put it in a glass case with a Gardy Bobblehead. I would love for them to also make a Gomez Bobblehead
well the number 35 is rubbing off on it…but still….when you’re tailgaiting on the road, you gotta play catch!
I don’t feel too bad, though, since we don’t really know for a fact that Gardy wears number 35 because the windbreaker is always on.
Gardy wears his bowling shirt under his windbreaker. I have an autographed Gardy bowling ball.
Seems to me like some of you are missing the point. This whole “Gardy’s 9th inning bone head moves” arguement completely ignores the fact that he first screwed up in the 7th, by again leaving Boof in too long. If Bonser is replaced by Gwar-ie-air in the 7th with 2 on and one out like he should have been, it’s highly likely that the game ends 5-3 or 6-4 in the 9th without even getting to all the 9th inning craziness and subsequent bullpen shenangians.
And that is why Jason must surrender the Gardy ball to you and you alone, jimmy bee. Jason, you also owe jimmy bee a Gardy bobblehead. Why? Because I said so… Plus, I just like jimmy bee, I am totally sending him an e-kiss-on-the-cheek right now. 
Jason,
You won’t be getting any e-kisses or any other kind from me. See JP for those.
Finally got a break and a chance to read through all this. I give you points for your tenacity. And glad to see the debate will end.
You don’t have to answer this, but wonder if you have ever managed a team? I have. My philosophy included a goal of “doing” whatever I could to help the team. I wanted to win the game, rather than wait for the other team to lose the game. The reason I raise this point is to explain why I am much more inclined to give managers the benefit of the doubt anytime they actually make a move. It shows they are trying. I am frustrated when I see moves that could/should be made and aren’t; or when they are made too late (two pitches too late; two batters too late). That also came into play as I pointed out repeatedly during the game and today with the pitching non-moves.
Gardy made moves to try to win the game or at a minimum to extend the game in the 9th inning. Win or lose, I would respect that. Clearly, the numbers support Redmond being a superior hitter than Everett over their careers. But, even more importantly is that intangible which neither you nor I have, and that is Gardy’s knowledge and trust (or lack of) for both players. This led him to the decision to put in Red Dog. I liked both moves at the time. I respected both moves in the extra innings even though it left us with a pitcher hitting.
And, no, I am quite certain that Gardy isn’t second guessing himself today… Nope, not for a second. That stuff only happens in blog-world after victories.
Cuddy must lead the majors in grounders to third. Is there a batting coach available who can teach him to ground out to second for a change?
BC of ND says:
May 20th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Gardy wears his bowling shirt under his windbreaker. I have an autographed Gardy bowling ball.
Inside of my glass case now it will contain a gardy ball, a bobblehead and a bowling ball.
BC what would it cost for Anthony LaPanta’s hair piece. On a side note if we do go to an outdoor stadium where wind will be a factor where will LaPanta do his interviews without the risk of losing his hair piece.
If given the opportunity to throw a ball into the back of a truck from the nose bleed section why does no one try to hit the window.
I have to agree with Jason,
Most of you think that Playoff and WS participants are determined by wins and losses.
ABSOLUTELY WRONG!!!!
It’s style points. To lose in style beats winning any day of the week.
Regards,
jimmy i think on e-bay it would go for at least $10.00 i could use it as a shammy for my car.
I just read that your boy Piazza retired
Carlos G may also have an e-kiss for stating his case so nicely without having to resort to calling people names or making fun of their opinions.
BC of ND says:
May 20th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
jimmy i think on e-bay it would go for at least $10.00 i could use it as a shammy for my car.
I just read that your boy Piazza retired
The last couple of years lowered his career batting avg. Oh wait. Noooooooooooo!!!!! Not Piazza!! Why me, I am getting old. He was my top 3 favorite Dodger. He stunk after that. Why meeeee. OK I am back now
BC a funny story about Piazza is he wasn’t even going to make the pros but Lasorda knew his family and got him a tryout as a favor to his family. The rest is history. I hope one day that Mauer will be as good as Piazza. He will never have the power but he will have a better glove and a similiar avg.
So at first i thought he was a lock first ballot HOFer but now i’m thinking it depends on who else calls it quits this year.
BC the only thing that could keep him out is his inability to defend against the stolen base. Defensively he wasn’t great. But what a person has to look at is his Batting avg and Power numbers while playing the catcher position everyday.
The one thing i’ll never forget about Piazza is the confontations he had with Roger Clemens. I wanted him to charge the mound after Roger threw that bat at him during the 02 WS he would have killed the rocket and i’ve never like Clemens.
BC who else may retire this year. Bonds, Sosa? I don’t think they will enter till later if at all
I do remember he was always in the HR derby at the all star break and he could never even hit 1 hr.
Both them and maybe Maddux and Frank Thomas, Randy Johnson.
Randy johnson should not enter unless Bert gets in. Maddux yes, yes, yes, yes. Frank Thomas should go in after if at all. He is kind of borderline I think. Richie Allen should enter before Thomas. Richie Allen is no longer eligable
BC did you see that Adam Dunn blast from last night. That man hits jurasic jaw dropping HR’s
well i encourage Carlos G, or any other former managers (i just love how that’s thrown in there as though it adds credibility to one’s take), to point out any other situation this season where an AL manager makes pinch hitting / defensive replacement moves that would require pitchers to bat for the balance of the game…
not going to happen and the reasons are clear.
But I guess “we won” and “it was all about Gardy’s passion” rule the day over logic in this situation. TK never would have done that.
Peace out y’all and Lates BC. Go Twins!!!!!!
Does anyone know if Gomez is able to play tonight in centerfield?
Also Did you know that Korecky’s hit last night was the first hit by a pitcher ever in the metrodome.
Jason,
Look, you’ve argued your point. Last night’s nights result say’s you were wrong.
I just don’t get the Gardy hate here 24/7/366.
Also, it was logical to have Morneau and Cuddyer to bat in extra’s. Yet, that and $1.29 get’s you a cold cup of coffee at 7-11.
Regards,
“Last night’s nights result say’s you were wrong.”
I don’t think you really want to go there. That logic can be turned around whenever the Twins lose.
Jason,
You get so emotional and defensive. I am sure you have some reason for your positions, though they are altogether unclear to the majority of the people that have been here today and probably to baseball people everywhere.
I guess we understand how embarrassed you are to have a pitcher hit. You’ve made that point clear. Oh my, how will you ever show your face as a Twins fan again! Gardy made a pitcher hit. Oh, the inhumanity of it all. Please, please where’s the brown paper bag to cover Jason’s head.
You say there was no logic. I fail to have seen you demonstrate that in any of your posts. The logic was to try to win the game. Pretty simple to understand isn’t it?
Follow this very s l o w l y …
You must do everything you can to tie or win the game in the 9th inning. Because failure to do so, means (drum roll) YOU LOSE!!!
Gardy believed, and most of the people that have any baseball knowledge believe, that Redmond had a better chance of getting it done than Everett. I don’t care if he had 8 outfielders on defense or 3 pitchers hitting in the extra innings if it meant we tied the game in the 9th due to the moves that needed to be made.
But, I get it. You don’t like the idea that a pitcher hit. Point made. Thanks for that.
What you need is something called a Beer Belly to go with the catheter. It goes under your shirt and you fill it with your favorite beverage and snake the straw up to your mouth. That way you don’t have to get up to get a beer or hit the john. I believe Gardy uses one of these in the Dugout and Coomer might as well. By the way, Gardy isn’t to blame for the team not winning the game when they should have. They had numerous chances only to blow them. At least he’s trying to make something happen.
“You must do everything you can to tie or win the game in the 9th inning. Because failure to do so, means (drum roll) YOU LOSE!!!”
But if you only manage a tie then (drum roll) YOU GO TO EXTRA INNINGS!!!
saam,
Baseball is a game where a player succeeding 30% of the time is Hall of Fame status.
When Style points are the criteria for success, I’ll join the chorus.
Regards,
A. Read my posts…there is nothing but love for Gardy. Questioning his logic does not equal hate in my book.
B. NOTHING about last night’s results say I was wrong. Nothing, not one thing. Redmond grounded out in the ninth and left the game. How does that prove I was wrong (because Clark ended up hitting in that spot in the 12th–if Everett is so inept, by that logic, Clark would’ve been batting for him anyway)? The Korecky hit (embarrassing as it was that he had to it) did not lead to a run.
Again, the simple fact that we won the game does not prove that it wasn’t a poor move…that’s the very definition of ignorance if you ask me.
Once again, as soon as you point out one other situation where an AL team is willing to forgoe a DH spot while trailing in the ninth to get a different hitter to the plate, while at the same time emptying their bench (meaning only pitchers are left to hit in their spot), then you can go off about how it was ‘the right thing to do’.
I defy you to find me another example of that…unscientifically, I’d be willing to bet TK never did it (and it’s not because he didn’t have statistically better alternatives available–it’s because you just don’t do that).
saam,
Excellent point, what’s the benefit in trying to tie the game in the 9th. Just LOSE and be done with it!!
Regards,
What does TK have to do with anything??
Dragon
I missed the post where anyone suggested that style points counted.
Hugs and kisses
YOU DON’T TRY TO TIE THE GAME AT ALL COSTS….DON’T YOU PEOPLE GET THAT??? HOW HARD IS THAT TO GET???
Seriously, how foolish would Gardy look if Clark walked in the ninth and Livan Hernandez ended up striking out or hitting into a double play…then the next time around (say the game goes 15 innings), Brian Bass ends up striking out with RISP…granted, on this squad, he’d fit right in, but still….
then we’re all sitting here today saying “how could’ve Gardy allowed his moves to get that out of control that he lost his DH for all those innings”?
Well…I’m simply pointing out that’s exactly the spot Gardy put us in last night…and why…so Mike Redmond could hit for Adam Everett to lead off the 9th.
I’d love to poll MLB managers to find out which of them are willing to make that move. But I guess Carlos G managed the Prior Lake Little League Giants, so he must be spot on.
Think about it…
Dragon
As we saw last night, you don’t have to win in the 9th to win the game.
There is an old saying about playing to tie at home and win on the road.
Hugs and kisses
Jason,
I would agree that Morneau batting when ALL that was needed was a fly ball to the outfield. Great logic, BAD result.
The moves worked through intent or inadvertance. While it remains to be seen, a game like last night, may end up having some very salutory effects on the team psychologically. Only time will tell.
Regards,
TK would definately let Everett hit, he loves veterans. he wouldn’t have anything to do with Gomez or Young, or Casilla. They’d be down in the minors for seasoning. I don’t know how some people hold TK is such high regards. When he didn’t have a talented team they stunk. Where was the great manager then. Where was his great eye for talent. Is Francona a great manager, no. Does he stay out of the way and let his players get it done. Yes
This needs to be the lineup for tonight’s game:
1.Gomez-CF
2.Young-LF
3.Mauer-C
4.Morneau-1B
5.Kubel-DH
6.Harris-2B/SS
7.Cuddyer-RF
8.Lamb-3B
9.Cassila-SS/2B
When I batted .356 in ‘88 my OBP was .375. I only drew 23 walks all year long. What do you guys think of that?
Boy, that whoops me. My career OBP was .324. Not too shabby for a leadoff hitter.
Jason says:
May 20th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
“YOU DON’T TRY TO TIE THE GAME AT ALL COSTS….DON’T YOU PEOPLE GET THAT??? HOW HARD IS THAT TO GET???”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
That was the most humorous of a series of humorous comments you made today.
I think a summary of your position is that it is better to lose in 9 innings than to tie and go to extra innings without a DH. HAHAHAHAHAHA
This last comment proved that I have already spent too much time trying to get you to understand what we are trying to do in the game (win). Oh well, better subjects and better debators elsewhere. Moving on. See ya buddy.
Carlos G,
I think a summary of your position is that it is better to lose in 9 innings than to tie and go to extra innings without a DH.
this is great right here, right on the money. no extra innings if your down 1
Jason, exactly when with the pitcher have to hit if the game doesn’t get tied?
Just curious why you wouldn’t try to tie the game at all costs. Most players can play other positions, even if they can’t play up to majorleague standards. Most of the players are exceptional athletes that can actually catch a ball, and throw it too.
Maybe a player like Gomez would look out of place in the infield, but I guarantee that he can play shortstop better than I ever could.
Truth is, if the Twins tie it up, and it goes to extra’s there is no guarantee that the ball would be hit towards the player that is out of place.
Many times a player can go for several innings without touching the ball.
Man, thanks for the laughs today.
BTW, we did have options still available. The starting pitchers have all fielded the ball in the infield before, so they could play in the field if necessity called.
I think Gardy just missed the action from the interleague series with all the moves and the pitchers getting involved. He’s setting them up for the next series in a national league park. They couldn’t get it done in Colorado, so he showed them they can do it in the AL where the other team has got a DH. If thats not giving them some confidence to whoop some NL tail, what is? That’s great managing right there.
Hey, anybody else think Souhan was terrible on the postgame show Monday night? His interviews with Korecky and Clark were the longest things I have ever seen.
“Seriously, how foolish would Gardy look if Clark walked in the ninth and Livan Hernandez ended up striking out or hitting into a double play…”
Hooray for getting hypothetically pissed off.
Here’s one. Your personal Golden Boy Morneau came up with the winning run 90ft away in at least two situations late in the game.
He failed to succeed in either.
“then the next time around (say the game goes 15 innings), Brian Bass ends up striking out with RISP…granted, on this squad, he’d fit right in, but still….”
And what if even then, in the next next time around, with Kevin Slowey making an emergency AB as he replaces Perkins in the top of the 30th he whifs on a surprise knuckler from Ian Kinsler, who’s now on the mound due to an emergency triple shift caused by a runaway ball thrown by inexperienced RHP Milton Bradley, who’s now warming up for a chance at his first major league save?
Face it Jason, Twins tied it up and you complained about the managerial moves. But would’ve been just as ticked off had Everett been left to hit and did the same thing.
“In the 9th inning you need SOMEBODY up there with a chance to hit!” you’d cry.
that would require pitchers to bat for the balance of the game…
Considering the score at the time…the balance of the game was about three more outs.
