All-Star thoughts: Lohse, Nathan
Posted on July 1st, 2008 – 11:22 AMBy Joe Christensen
Kyle Lohse improved to 10-2 with a 3.67 ERA for the Cardinals last night. Is he an All-Star? We’ll find out when the rosters are announced Sunday.
As Boston manager Terry Francona mulls over his AL roster, I have a suggestion: No matter how many AL closers are deserving, Joe Nathan should be there.
Sounds like a no-brainer, but this could be a dilemma. Here’s a look at the AL’s top closers:
Pitcher (Saves/Opportunities, ERA)
Francisco Rodriguez (32/34, 2.04)
George Sherrill (26/32, 3.68)
Jonathan Papelbon (24/28, 2.00)
Mariano Rivera (22/22, 0.74)
Joe Nathan (22/24, 1.34)
Joakim Soria (22/23, 1.25)
Bobby Jenks (18/21, 1.95)
The Twins are positioned strongly enough in the standings to justify multiple All-Star selections. Joe Mauer, Justin Morneau and Joe Nathan all should get in.
Mauer is leading the voting at catcher, and deservedly so. Morneau trails Kevin Youkilis at first base, which shouldn’t be a problem because Morneau is the only other AL first baseman putting up All-Star numbers. (Pete D is right, Jason Giambi, too.)
Nathan’s situation is stickier because it’s tough to make a case for other Royals, beyond Soria, or other Orioles, beyond Sherrill. Remember, every team gets at least one selection.
K-Rod, Rivera and Papelbon are locks. Pap has blown four saves, but Francona is going to stick with his guys.
I think Francona should buck tradition and stockpile closers instead of starters. Who would you rather see pitch the fifth inning of a tie game, Nathan or … Mike Mussina? Here are the basic numbers of some of the top AL starters:
Pitcher (W-L, ERA)
Cliff Lee (11-1, 2.34)
Joe Saunders (11-4, 3.06)
Mike Mussina (10-6, 3.87)
Vicente Padilla (10-4, 4.13)
Daisuke Matsuzaka (9-1, 3.21)
Roy Halladay (9-6, 2.90)
Ervin Santana (9-3, 3.32)
Gavin Floyd (9-4, 3.45)
Andy Pettitte (9-5, 3.98)
Justin Duchscherer (8-5, 1.91 - Owen is right, bad omission there)
John Lackey (6-1, 1.44, after starting year on the DL)
That’s a pretty underwhelming list. Lee should get the start. After that, I’d take Dice-K, Halladay, Lackey, two or three others, and load up on closers.
After all, the All-Star Game “counts” now, at least for home-field advantage in the World Series. Most pitchers will be throwing one inning anyway. Might as well go with the league’s strengths and take Nathan, the ultimate one-inning specialist.
87 Responses to "All-Star thoughts: Lohse, Nathan"
AL relievers ranked by WPA:
1. Rodriguez, LAA - 3.03
2. Soria, KC - 2.87
3. Nathan, MIN - 2.77
4. Rivera, NYY - 2.60
…
28. Papelbon, BOS - 0.78, just behind Matt Guerrier.
Joe, there are other pitching stats out there besides win ya know.
Where are the starters that actually have good numbers?
Vicente Padilla, are you kidding?
“which shouldn’t be a problem because Morneau is the only other AL first baseman putting up All-Star numbers.”
I don’t know if I would go that far. Jason Giambi is having a really good year as well - .263/.398/.548 with 17 home runs, 30 total extra base hits, 46 RBI, etc. The only categories that Morneau is leading in are batting average and RBI. Which, admittedly, are ones that stick out. But Giambi is having a very good season, and probably worthy of an All-Star nod.
Soria is probably the only Royals player deserving, and he definitely deserves it, so that is a key factor.
“As Boston manager Terry Francona mulls over his AL roster, I have a suggestion: No matter how many AL closers are deserving, Joe Nathan should be there.”
While I do agree, it does appear Joe C. desparately wants his first Homer of the Month.
Does Bobby Jenks make it? His numbers are similar to Nathan’s and his squad is in first place.
I can see going with Lee, Saunders, Mussina, Matsuzaka, Halladay and Santana as starters. I have no problem with George Sherrill making it too because since “it counts” they will want a lefty reliever and Sherrill is excellent against lefties. K-Rod and Rivera are givens. I think Soria and Nathan should be too.
A couple thoughts on the Nathan thing…
First, I would discount Papelbon and Sherill (4 and 6 blown saves, respectively, is too many). To me, I don’t care if the manager does wear a Red Sox uniform, you don’t put Papelbon in over Nathan.
Secondly, where do set-up guys fit in this mix? (Is it just assumed that the only relievers in the All-Star game are closers?)
Thirdly, even with Papelbon and Sherill taking a back seat to Nathan, you still have three other relievers–K Rod, Rivera, and Soria who have better stats, and, in the case of Rivera, have better All-Star cred…plus, as I pondered above, I think if you’re going to factor the “position in the standings” into the equation, you have to give Bobby Jenks as much consideration as Nathan.
So having gone over all that, maybe it’s not as clear-cut that Nathan should make it…but my Twins-fandom mind tells me he belongs…
“Might as well go with the league’s strengths and take Nathan, the ultimate one-inning specialist.”
That line made me think of this, too…in terms of deserving, do you factor in how Nathan is only asked to get three-out saves and is never brought in with runners on base? Joe C. makes it sound like it’s more advantageous–or more impressive–to be a one-inning specialist; I’m not so sure.
Maybe Papelbon is more deserving, considering that additional factor.
How can you leave off Justin Duchscherer from your top A.L. pitchers? He seems like a lock to make the team out of Oakland at this point seeing as he’s 8-5 with a 1.91 ERA (leading the majors) for a surprising Athletics team. I have no doubt that he will be on the team in addition to those selected from your list of starters above.
WTF was with the umpire not warning that pitcher last night after he threw behind Mauer then he warns him after a second pitch. Uncalled for he should have been tossed. Then he warns us and throws out Gardy. Very unproffesional.
I think the Twins do much better with alot of left handed hitters in the lineup. The vast majority of pitchers are going to be right handed, which gives left handed hitter somewhat of an advantage. Span, I believe, should be the regular right fielder and Cuddyer should be traded. Span is a much better defensive player, a much faster runner, a much better base stealer and base runner, and he hits for a much higher average than Cuddyer. And because Span draws alot of walks, his on base percentage is much better than Cuddyer’s. With Span in the lineup, the Twins have the fastest team in all of baseball. Cuddyer is clumsy and rather slow, a poor base stealer and frequently falls down when running. The Twins should never have signed him to a long term contract. Hopefully, the Twins will be able to dump him off on some team who will be willing to pick up his contract. Otherwise, the team is going to be stuck with a big baby who has an inflated ego and only average talent. Span is a far superior athlete to have in the lineup on a regular basis and can really help the team win games.
Ugly series. First pitch today just drill the first guy on the first pitch. Get it over with then if they try anything there guy gets tossed.
Soria is the only deserving Royals player?
Jose Guillen batted a ridiculous .345 for the month of June, and that was AFTER a four-game slump at the end of the month. He’s batting .281 with 13 HR and 61 RBI (3rd in the AL). And while defense doesn’t matter in the All-Star Game clearly (though it should), he’s racked up 6 OF assists in just 55 games in the outfield.
He’s hands down that team’s MVP. When they make their one selection, I’d say it should be Guillen.
Joe why wasn’t Livan on your list? There should be at least 5-6 Sox and Yankees on the team because everyone knows those two are the only teams that really count.
Here is a list of the 10 best starters and ten best relievers in the AL ranked by VORP
SP
Lee 32.7
Halladay 30.3
Danks 28.8
Marcum 28.4
Lackey 27.9
Duchscherer 27.6
F. Hernandez 24.5
Harden 24
Saunders 22.6
Santana 22.6
RP
James Johnson 20.9
Rivera 18.1
Downs 17
Soria 15.9
Chamberlain 15.6
Nathan 14.6
Wheeler 14.3
Linebrink 13.2
Mahay 12.7
F Rodriguez 12.4
I am sure that there are some surprising names (and this makes a point about the value of middle relievers)
herb - “Otherwise, the team is going to be stuck with a big baby who has an inflated ego and only average talent.”
Where does Cuddyer come off as a big baby with an inflated ego? Just curious. Also, Span is better defensively? Did you watch Span play that ball into a triple last night, whereas had Cuddyer been playing there would have been a legitimate shot to throw the guy out at second? Span may be faster, but the game isn’t all about speed. Cuddyer doesn’t claim to be a speed player, but is still a far better baseball player than Span. Cuddyer has 200 more at-bats than Span this year…give Span 200 more at-bats and you’ll be crying for Cuddyer back. There is no chance that Cuddyer would be moved, let alone for Span.
“Where does Cuddyer come off as a big baby with an inflated ego? Just curious.”
Agreed… Cuddyer has represented nothing but class and poise and team throughout his time with the Twins.
Wow… I just had to re-read Herb’s 12:27 comment and I have to wonder if he’s actually someone else. I don’t think much of any of that could be backed up besides Span being faster than Cuddyer. Based on history (not just the past two months) Cuddyer would hit for more average, more power and actually have significantly better on-base skills. Also, Cuddyer would be the better base stealer than Span who until this year stole at a very poor rate.
Sorry to everyone for acknowledging an obvious troll, but I felt the need.
throughout his time with the Twins…
How about “since he moved to the outfield”. I think that would be more accurate.
I am convinced that Span is a younger version of Tyner (which is fine for a bench player) but not a starter
Cuddy is a class act on and off the field and I think he is deserving of a nick name. “Captain Bazooka Arm”
I think that whether or when Cuddyer leaves is directly proportional to the speed of Revere’s development in the minors. I would not mind seeing an outfield of Gomez LF, Revere CF, Young RF some time in the future. Whether it would be 2010, 2011 or 2012 is still questionable.
Seth do you think that we will be seeing any of Humber or Mulvey this year.
How about “one hit wonder” (as in 2006), jimmy bee…
While herb’s comments re: Span v. Cuddy were absurd to say the least, it does have to be pointed out that the guy appears to be on a steady decline and, as I suspected at the time, extending him long term may not have been the best move.
Most likely all star selection will be Livan with his possible 9 wins. Varitek will over take Mauer and they will have Giambi and Posada on the team because they play for the home team. That leaves Mauer and Morneau at home with no other viable canidate than Livan. To many relievers for Nathan to make it.
They may have to change the rules so each team doesn’t have a player so the Sox and Yankees can each have 8-9 or more.
It may be easier to just have the two teams play another game, they really don’t get on tv enough.
Jason,
It looks like Cuddyer’s production is declining and he is 29. Still it is very hard to tell. Look at this guy’s career numbers from 26-29 and later
http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/o‘neipa01.shtml
you never know
i think Leyland is playing mind games from Detroit’s dugout. so here is what I would do as a mind game. First inning just drill someone. Next the umpire warns both sides but this time we hit them and not the opposite way around as in them hitting us. If no warning is issued nail the next batter. I guarantee this brings out a warning. This will take away the inside pitch from the opposing team. This will not effest the Twins seeing that they neeeeever pitch inside. If they drill one of the Twins players they get ejected or we just took away the inside pitch for the tigers. Like I said before we don’t pitch inside so it wouldn’t effect us
Tonight’s lineup ought to be interesting…
I wouldn’t doubt it if Punto got 3B
I wouldn’t doubt it if Monroe got RF
Me….I’d go with status quo…exact same as last night…
“Seth do you think that we will be seeing any of Humber or Mulvey this year.”
I would think that they will bring up Humber in September just because he will be out of options next year and they need to be able to evaluate what they have. My personal opinion is that he needed a shot at a spot in the rotation and get some AAA starts at Rochester, but his career is likely in the bullpen.
I don’t think we’ll see Mulvey this year. There is no real reason to bring him up right now. He is pitching alright at Rochester, but nothing that screams promotion. I would say that both Liriano and Duensing would be promoted ahead of him. Secondly, he does not need to be added to the 40 man roster until something like after the 2009 season, so unless he forces his way into the Twins starting rotation, there is little benefit to the Twins to bring him up.
I would probably do just those things Jason… Buscher’s slowed down a little and could use a game off. I would have no problem with that. I’m all for Kubel playing almost every day, but again, I have no problem with giving him a day off against certain lefties. I’d probably DH Monroe and go with Span in left (better contact possibility, and better D than Monroe). I would also consider this a possible Mauer day off (or maybe just DH) to get Redmond some at bats.
seth what do you make of this?
twins stolen bases:
gomez; 11 april, 6 may, 4 june
team; 27 april, 18 may, 7 june.
7 stolen bases in june doesn’t seem like a running/speed team, does it?
where did the running game go?
gotta get on base to steal bases… Gomez was horrific in June… and I dont’ know if it was late May or early June when he got thrown out four or five times in a row (I think by Miguel Olivo in part), and he hasn’t been running as much since then.
Other than that, Casilla’s the only real running threat. If he’s on, Mauer can give him plenty of pitches to run on. Now with Span up, I would expect him to go from time to time.
The Twins have never really been a running/speed team, but I think with the acquisition of Gomez, the promotions of Span and Casilla, the draft choices like Benson, Revere and Hicks, clearly speed is becoming a big component… (especially in the post-steroid era).
Again, i wouldn’t mess with it too much….if you want to play Monroe instead of Span, go for it…keep Kubel in (I know, I know, not usually my position, but he’s earned the chance to keep playing everyday even after an 0-fer)…as for Mauer, if he must get either tonight or tomorrow afternoon off, maybe you bench him tonight…I’d like to see him play both games with the off-day Thurs. Plus, I think it’s important that this team leader get back in there after his body was the target of a couple Detroit fastballs last night….oh, and Punto is definitely a no-go, in my view (but I wouldn’t doubt it if we saw him in there)
So I go with:
Go-go
Casilla
Mauer
Morneau
Monroe
Kubel
Young
Buscher
Harris
Also, what was the team’s winning percentage in each month… how much does base stealing aid in winning? (I’m not saying there is a direct correlation, just a secondary observation after hitting Submit.)
(especially in the post-steroid era).
Right, because steroids and HR power were a huge part of our pedigree in the last 20 years.
Jenks has been a great closer, and is on a first place team, but I think there may be guys in the lineup that’ll get the nod as “Sox reps” before they take Jenks.
Also, I wouldn’t hold Nathan’s “history” as a one-inning guy against him when that’s more based on how his manager uses him.
Relievers in the All-Star game usually only face one or two batters these days, though that’s changed recently now that “it counts”. As we sometimes see pitchers (and a few bench guys) who never make it into the game.
And when it comes to relievers…it’s unfortunately the closers that are considered the “stars” of the bullpen, if only because they’re always the guy who is on the mound when the game ends (one way or another)
So managers will view a bullpen full of closers as dominant without even looking at middle relief.
I don’t like it either, but that’s just the times we live in. And when “it counts” you gotta take the guys who get paid to work under pressure.
Especially when 1-9 an All-Star lineup will be generally superior to the average 1-9 of any single team.
For picking a starter, Lee or Saunders. Why not? They may not be big name stars, but if they’re pitching the best this year then go with them if they’re available.
There’s a reason the fans aren’t allowed to pick pitchers.
I’d have no issues with that lineup, Jason…
My fear would be a lineup that had harris at 3B and Punto at SS.
Hey, I have a call…Justin Morneau goes yard tonight….just looked at my calendar and noticed today is Canada Day
Better let Crain pitch again today too then!
seems strange for such a drastic drop off.
again to the span in left and young in right doesn’t seem like a great idea short term. span 8-10 gms in rf 0 in lf and young has 40+/- in lf and maybe 4 in rf last yr. young is starting be more alive at bat and to switch him over and play a different field and the baggie doesn’t seem wise right now only to move him back when cuddy comes back.
Maybe this is a topic for discussion, but I am thinking that Gardy doesn’t use his bench the same way that Tom Kelly did. For instance, Mike Lamb went basically a week or more without one at bat and then was called on to pinch hit. I remember Tom Kelly got his bench in fairly regularly so that when he needed them, they weren’t completely out of it.
Now, I’m not saying one way is better than the other. For instance, the Phillies basically have a set lineup, so their bench won’t play as much. I just think that guys do need days off and that guys on the bench need to be thrown a bone from time to time to stay fresh. that’s really the only reason that I don’t have a problem with pretty much anyone but Morneau getting an occasional day off.
congrats to span on a very nice first nite back in the bigs, so other than that ball that played him in rt field (ya cant hold that against him, as thats just experience and wont happen too often) he had a very good game, multiple hits and a great catch in the 1st inning…lets hope he can keep up that pace and be a very solid member on this team…i was not a fan of his a year ago, and wanted him gone, but i have done a complete 360 as he has and now i just want to see alot of him in this lineup…time will tell how this young man develops, but what ive seen this year so far, counting spring training has been wonderful….
Seth during blowout games and games that are in later innings why don’t we try to bring in some of our bench players?
I want to see Punto at First during a Twins blowout this year. My favorite event was seeing Punto playing Left field this year. Jose Canseco played every position during a game. Why not Punto. That would be cool to see Pitching prospect Punto.
“Seth during blowout games and games that are in later innings why don’t we try to bring in some of our bench players?”
150% agree… I think that every time that the Twins are up or down by 7 or 8 runs (not that that is a lot) in the 5th inning and Mauer is still catching. Or down 5-6 in the 8th or 9th and Morneau is still going in to first base. Those are perfect times to give those guys some extra innings off.
“Jose Canseco played every position during a game.”
No he didn’t.
Seth I thought he did. I know I have seen him pitch. Fastball clocked in at like 75 mph. He looked just very rigid and odd. I think he threw an eephus pitch, could be wrong though
Seth, I think the use of the bench is situational.
In 2006, unless your name was Louis Rodriguez, you saw substantial playing time.
In 2007, L-Rod still sat for a fairly big chunk, and Lew Ford wasn’t seeing the field nearly as much for stretches, but other than that, the reserves made it in.
This year we have different circumstances…in a sense, we have fewer question marks. We know we want Young, Go-go, and Cuddy in the outfield. We pretty much know we want Kubel at DH. We know we don’t want Punto starting anywhere…and we need Brendan Harris to be an everyday player…then, along comes two developments: A) Mike Lamb proves futile and B) Alexi Casilla proves he’s better than any original contemplated starter not named Morneau or Mauer…
So now you have a situation where every position is solidified, except 3B.
You also have a situation where the bench consists of answers–not questions (Lamb, Monroe, Redmond, and Punto aren’t going to surplant anyone). Plus, you also have two mop-up relievers, for no apparent reason.
Thus, is there really a reason to ensure the bench gets their fair share of playing time? I submit the answer is no. If this bench consisted of Jason Kubel, Darnell McDonald, and Brian Buscher, then I would feel differently.
Once players get caught a few times, Gardy shuts down the running game. Especially if it’s somebody who could be on base when Morneau comes up.
Morneau, Mauer, and Cuddyer. Gardy revolves the game around the three pretty boys. Sometimes at the expense of winning.
Craig is TK drunk on the commercial with the 3 pretty boys. He always sounds as though his speach is sluuuured. Maybe to many freebies at the local Legion or VFW. I don’t know what is your take on the subject.
jimmy, TK doesn’t have a reputation for imbibing in strong drink, but he is Irish, so who knows. Sorry, my apologies to all the nice, sober Irish people out there (if there are any).
Maybe just a speech impediment
If Francona was smart he’d pick Roy Holliday as the starter and all the closers you mentioned that should shut down the weak NL not that Blackburn couldn’t do the same.
If the Twins are out of the competition in September, I think they will move Casilla to SS. Tolbert will play 2B. Span in CF. Mauer, of course, behind the plate. That looks to me, to be the team, up the middle, in 2009.
Gardy won’t make the switch if the team is in the hunt. Casilla may stumble.
craig are you saying that m, m & c get special treatment form gardy? gasp!!
i know i’m in the minority but i don’t think cuddy is that good a ball player, at least in relation to how much he’s paid. without looking it up i would think his #’s are no better than ave for rf’s.
Check out some solid Twins discussion on “Sports on Demand”
http://media.myfoxtwincities.com/livestream/webcast/archive.htm
I got Morneau at 1B in ‘09, Cuddy in RF (no other team will take that contract), and LF, DH and 3B wide open.
gobble,
Cuddy is definitely way overpaid in relationship to his production. That’s why trading him isn’t an option.
Of course, the pretty boys get special treatment. That’s where the old man has all his dough wrapped up. Along with Nathan. Nathan is the 4th pretty boy. All four get the kid glove treatment. Babied to the max.
They are the white boys, used to attract the white crowds, and the white money. They are the 4 white pretty boys. I got in trouble before, for saying something along those lines, so, I’m saying no more.
good idea!!!!
Wow, Craig…nothing “new and improved” about that take…
Show some class…
When I was a kid, I went to the ballpark to see Kirby Puckett.
SethSpeaks says:
July 1st, 2008 at 2:43 pm
“Jose Canseco played every position during a game.”
No he didn’t.
He did try pitching once and threw his arm out and had to go on the DL.
Hey Craig, for a second there, I thought someone was imitating you, using the moniker “herb”
BTW, it is a good thing to have players advancing on a hit up the middle. How many times has Mauer grounded into what could have been a DB, and they only get one out? Happens alot when your team has good speed.
Seems he may have slowed the running game, but he still sends the runners on occasion, like last night when Young was doubled off on that liner. Sometimes it works, sometimes, well, you get burned.
I don’t think any of those guys are pretty. LaPantha on the other hand could be a male model.
may be time for the newer and more improved craig after that one.
BC did you see Lapanta sitting next to Smalley yesterday. I laughed so hard I launched my cat 3 feet and fell off the couch.
They say that 4 players played every position in a game can anyone name them.
my two female roommates have an enormous crush on Anthony LaPanta
monroe dh’ing tonight. what’s he hitting against lefties .100?
sorry .103 ave and a .175 obp; probably hit 2 hr’s tonight.
Bert Campaneris, Cesar Tovar, Scott Sheldon, and Shane Halter.
Yeah, Craig…before you ring the racism bid, you should probably check your facts.
Young pretty white boy Garza and light skinned equally pretty boy Bartlett traded to Rays primarily for Delmon Young.
Pretty white boys Lew Ford and Jason Tyner dropped. Craig Monroe aquired.
Latin rookie Carlos Gomez aquired.
Livan Hernandez signed, given opening day job.
I’m going to stop there. There are a lot of things you might be able to argue about the Twins FO…racism is hardly even CLOSE to one of them.
T,
Sure, the Twins have some token black and Latin players hired as temps. I’m talking about who got the big, long term money. It all went to the white pretty boys (Morneau, Mauer, Cuddyer, Nathan). The black and Latin guys who were in line for big money, got the boot (Santana, Castillo, Hunter, Silva). Check your own facts.
Craig:
If you think Delmon Young, Carlos Gomez, Francisco Liriano, and Alexi Casilla are temps…your sadly mistaken.
But hey, your favorite player, the ever spunky (and latin) Nick Punto is still with the team and still getting playing time (starts even!) after three years.
Go ring your bell elsewhere, for a while there I thought you had actually become new and improved…but it’s good to see you’ve gotten right back into form.
T,
What does this “ring your bell” stuff mean?
I’ll believe it, when I see it, regarding the black and Latin players. I hope you are right.
No hard feelings, man. I know you’re a Pohlad apologist and blog cop, and I’m a “pot stirrer” according to some. I’m cool with you, even have defended you. Like I said, no hard feelings. We can disagree, at times, and still coexist.
Santana, Castillo, Hunter, and Silva are worth about 60% of their pay this year.
M&M about 100%.
Cuddy is a ?? so far due to injuries.
Nathan ain’t pretty.
Ho-hum………
If Nathan doesn’t make it, he maybe can thank Delmon Young and his misplay that scored 3 runs (one charged to Nathan) and caused one of Nathan’s two blown saves. That said, it doesn’t seem like Nathan’s been throwing as hard as in prior years…
craig,
“who got the big, long term money. It all went to the white pretty boys (Morneau, Mauer, Cuddyer, Nathan). The black and Latin guys who were in line for big money, got the boot”
Kirby Puckett - 5-year contact for $30 million. 1993-1997
“I know you’re a Pohlad apologist…”
When people start crying racism…it goes far beyond “Pohlad apologizing”.
Kirby Puckett 5-year contact for $30 million. 1993-1997
first to earn $3+ million per year.
Torii Hunter 2003-2006 4 years - $32 million
Kirby Puckett 5-year contact for $30 million. 1993-1997
first to earn $3+ million per year.
Torii Hunter 2003-2006 4 years - $32 million
Johan Santana 2005-2008 4 years - $39,750,000
Kirby Puckett 5-year contact for $30 million. 1993-1997
first to earn $3+ million per year.
Torii Hunter 2003-2006 4 years - $32 million
Johan Santana 2005-2008 4 years - $39,750,000
Joe Mauer 2007-2010 4 years - $33 million
Kirby Puckett 5-year contact for $30 million. 1993-1997
first to earn $3+ million per year.
Torii Hunter 2003-2006 4 years - $32 million
Johan Santana 2005-2008 4 years - $39,750,000
Joe Mauer 2007-2010 4 years - $33
million
Justin Morneau 2008-2013 5 years - $66.5 milion
Johan Santana - TURNED DOWN Twins offer of 5 years -$100 million
Wasn’t Puckett’s contract also one of the biggest of its time?
Almost all racist teams, have the one black superstar that they pay, and then get rid of all the other minority players. That’s common. That’s what they did with Puckett and also with Torii. Everyone knows this, except for apologists. They know it too, but like it, so they deny it. The minority superstar is subterfuge for their evil and nefarious deeds.
T and Sid,
Some guys aren’t worth debating. Craig is one of those guys, both the old and new Craigs.
He is trying to create controversy where there is none.
Craig, the guys that “Got the boot”??? Really??? Are you frickin serious???
The guys he talks about were offered outstanding contracts. They left for ridiculous contracts. Big deal. Good for them. The teams that gave those deals are already having second thoughts.
The guys that signed and stayed were willing to take less than the market would have offered them. Good for us.
White guys.
They know it too, but like it…
And thus the ultimate “advantage” to playing the race card. You never have to admit your wrong for playing it.
If anybody disagrees with you, it’s not because they may have a valid point. It’s because they too are racist.
