Postgame: Red Sox 1, Twins 0
Posted on July 7th, 2008 – 11:29 PMBy Joe Christensen
BOSTON — As expected, this blog and the game story file are filled with comments from apoplectic Twins fans after the 1-0 loss at Fenway Park. Just so everyone has some basic facts:
1) Scott Baker threw 94 pitches and was spent after seven innings. The game-time temp was 82 degrees, and it was plenty humid.
“You get a little gassed,” he said. “There’s no breaks [in Boston’s lineup]. It’s almost like a playoff atmosphere in this stadium. You’re letting it fly pretty much the whole game.”
2) Brian Bass had a 1.23 ERA over the previous two weeks.
3) Manny Ramirez batted .161 on Boston’s just completed 3-7 road trip.
4) Righthanded hitters were batting .291 against Hideki Okajima, compared to .220 for lefties.
5) Delmon Young has put the first pitch in play in 57 of his 339 plate appearances this season. He is batting .304 when that happens.
136 Responses to "Postgame: Red Sox 1, Twins 0"
“If a runner at third tags up too soon on a sac-fly and comes home to score, what is the official protcol for the pitching team to record the out?”
Its impossible to TAG UP TOO SOON!
If you really meant “LEFT THIRD BASE TOO SOON”, the protocol is to get the ball immediately to third base and appeal to the umpire that the runner left too soon, while the fielder is standing on third base in possession of the ball.
EXCEPTION: If the ball is dead (due to the umpire calling time out for instance). The pitcher must put the ball in play by standing on the pitching rubber in a pitching position (wind-up or set) with the ball in his hand. When the umpire signals to the pitcher that the ball is in play, the pitcher steps off the back of the rubber and throws the ball to third base where the previously described appeal play is executed.
Does that explanation clear me of any charges of being called an idiot?
Frankly, Scarlett, I don’t give a shit!
Question, it seems like Delmon has put the first pitch in play for an out more often lately, is this just an illusion Joe, or do I have a selective memory? I would definitely believe the second one.
And you could tell that Baker was gassed in the seventh because his velocity was down 3-4 mph. Though I don’t think anyone will ever see Scott Baker throw 3 consecutive 96 mph fastballs again.
Who is gatty790 and why doesn’t his website work?
1) Yup, Baker did good.
2) Stat is irrelevant. It’s Bass.
3) Stat is irrelevant. It’s Manny.
4) Gardy was okay — just didn’t work out.
5) Stat is irrelevant. Delmon repeated his ploy too many times in a row tonight.
Haven’t bothered to read through the other blog so I might not be sufficiently informed of what exactly the “apoplectic” behavior was all about(I can only surmise that it might not be as bad as Red Sox fans after watching Manny take three straight Rivera strikes the other night), but I’m with romer and don’t quite understand your blog entry here, Joe, or at least points #2, #3, and #5. Were there some positives to come out of the game? I’m sure there were. But at the same time, when a team loses they had to do somethings wrong as well, correct?
Relating to Bass’s last two weeks, is the last two weeks the barometer by which to measure the successes of relief pitchers? I mean, if you look hard enough to find something postive (or negative) about any player or scenario in baseball, chances are you’ll be able to find it. What has Bass done in the last three weeks, or the last six, or better yet, what is his ERA for the season or in Fenway Park? I mean, where exactly is the cut-off here when analyzing this thing? Morover, ERA for a RP is specious in that if inherited runners score it’s the starters ERA that goes up.
Don’t know what the whole Manny thing is about, but what he did in a recent road trip pales in comparison to his career stats in Fenway, I can all but assure.
As for Mr. Young, there is no way to justify this fetish he has for first-pitch swinging — especially if a pitcher is struggling to find the plate! If a player is set on swinging at every damn first pitch he better have at least a .304 average or why else would he swing? And when he’s not batting .304 on first pitches how many DP’s has he hit into? How about when runners are in scoring position and he’s swinging at the first pitch, what’s his average then? He could be a really good hitter, but if you’re saying his lack of plate discipline is somehow an asset towards his development, have to respectfully disagree with you on that.
Brian Bass had a 1.23 ERA over the previous two weeks.
BAH! He faced 28 batters over that stretch in 5 games and 7 1/3 innings. That’s nothing. Roy Halladay pitches more innings than that before he eats breakfast in the morning.
Even crappy relief pitchers have stretches where their ERA is decent. Juan Rincon had a 7-game, 8.1-inning stretch from May 9 to May 21 where his ERA was 2.16. Then over the next 6 games he had an ERA of 11.42 and was cut from the team.
ERA fluctuates wildly for relief pitchers, and as rudimentary and misguided as ERA is for judging starting pitchers, it’s light years worse for trying to judge relief pitchers–especially over the span of two weeks.
It’s not like Bass has some kind of dazzling repertoire out there. He gets some ground balls, but he barely misses any bats. You can make a pretty decent argument for just about anyone else in the bullpen to be in that situation instead of Bass.
There were a lot of other factors that went into the loss, but putting Bass into that situation is simply not a justifiable decision. (Which is unfortunate, because bullpen management has tended to be a strength of Mr. Gardenhire, and I thought he otherwise managed the game well.)
Sorry Joe, but the angst for me re: Bass is that Gardy chose to change his role in a pressure packed, tie game. Guerrier is the guy in that spot, but having pitched the prior day he may not have been available. Then you go to the other guy who has that role, Crain. I object to the unexplained shift in Bass’ role. I don’t care what his last few stats are. It’s like having you shifted to politics coverage the day the convention starts.
Delmon hopefully had been watching Dicek throw the ball all over New England to the previous two batters the first time. One would hope that he is sufficiently developed as a hitter to be paying attention to what the situation is. Or that his management thinks for him.
No excuses.
I would have to say the only thing I disagreed with was pinch hitting Monroe for KUBEL. I understand why it was done, but I think Kubel is a much better hitter regardless of what arm the pitcher is throwing with. Plus Okajima had trouble with Morneau so why take out your guy who’s tied for the team lead in HR’s, 2nd on the team in RBI, and has a pretty good eye? He was having a decent game at the plate, and seems to come up with clutch hits…. Just something I was thinking when I saw Monroe going up for Kubel. On the Other hand Monroe has come up with some big hits so Gardy was rolling the Dice again but came up short. Oh well it was a good game I thought.
I didn’t mind seeing bass come in. He’s pitched well lately and you have to see if a guy can perform under pressure. It didn’t go that great this time
Remember kids, its okay to ignore the stats unless they agree with you. Than find whatever stat you need.
Relating to Bass’s last two weeks, is the last two weeks the barometer by which to measure the successes of relief pitchers?
If you go by the prevailing logic of the boards, a pitcher is a success or failure based solely on the results of his most recent single pitch.
If it was a strike, or out, then he’s back and the team is set to make a run.
If it was a ball, or god forbid a hit, then he’s a bum and should never see the mound again.
And to sane, I wouldn’t bother with Kevin’s question. The guy dipped to the level of insulting manhood and spelling/grammar, which is traditionally the Internet equivalent of waiving the White Flag.
Personally, I rank it even below the common “If you disagree with me, it’s because you work for Pohlad/are Nick Punto” counter.
All he needed to do was compare somebody to the Nazi’s and he’d have completed the trifecta.
Tough loss. The biggest mistake of the night wasn’t Bass. It was the Monroe PH. If both are performing, Kubel and Monroe are essentially the same guy. In a bases loaded situation with less than two outs, a sac-fly gets a run across just as well as a hit.
Monroe’s PH should’ve been saved for the 9th (had it still turned out 1-0) when guys like Punto or Casilla came to the dish…as at that point you NEED the longball and Monroe gives you your best chance off the bench.
PS: Interesting article today about the Twins in the Trade Market.
I don’t know if the headline is worded the best, as it makes it sound like they won’t do ANYTHING, whereas the article makes it more clear that they’re not going to revolutionize the roster or anything like that.
I know every year people say this team is “only one bat away”, but I think this year it’s a fairly close assessment.
With Kubel growing comfortable in the DH slot, and the OF set (say what you will about Young but he’s producing at a consistent level comparred to White over in LF), the biggest hole on this team is at 3B.
Buscher’s producing, but he’s still “young”. If the Twins could find a more experienced 3B that they could also lock up long term, I think this is the time to make a move.
Like I said yesterday, Span used to get a 3B when Cuddy comes back, Buscher to bench, Lamb released/dealt for ANYTHING.
At worst, Buscher/Lamb is a wash off the bench. The new 3B would (hopefully) be an upgrade.
When Tolbert comes back, he stays in AAA until September so he can get plenty of ABs to help his swing come back. Punto sticks with the roster (IN A BENCH ROLE!) and finishes out the year a Twin before being thanked for his time before being firmly booted out the door.
Well Mr Christensen. Thought you are a writer at the Strib but this high 5 seems like s sum of arguments by Gardenhire’s lawyer.
What was it 16 out of 18 wins? A 1-0 loss to the Sox in Fenway against a very good pitcher yep season over! Some bad at bats sure, probably a bad pitching change with Bass in that situation sure, one game makes the season a disaster.
At least nobody over reacts on here.
This is a pretty scary 9th inning line-up. A lot of grit and guys who “play hard” This is exactly what you will get in the playoffs, so why bother. No one off the bench and no threats to go deep! Nice pinch hitting options or nice job actually pinch hitting someone who can hit a home-run. 1 swing and your tied or put three chink hits together and let the grit take over. Chalk up another loss. This one can’t be blamed on pitch count though.
Brian Buscher: Foul, Ball, Foul, Foul, Foul, Foul, Buscher struck out swinging.
Nick Punto: Punto fouled out to third.
Denard Span: Span grounded out to first
I understand Bass making one bad pitch.What I can’t understand is Delmon was unable to get runners accross the plate two times during this game. Playoff atmosphere it sure was. Perhaps in the future, like say a first inning game with bases loaded and Delmon comes to the plate, maybe thats when he should be pulled for a pinch hitter….
Thanks for the post Joe, I agree, the fans are being ridiculous! We lost a very hard fought close game, and now everyone wants to question Gardenhire? Its just great reading the opinions of fans that have NO idea how baseball is played. Gardy made the right decision, it just happened that Boston got the ball to bounce their way. It HAPPENS. There are 162 games in the year. We still play Boston two more times. Everyone needs to CALM DOWN!
“o.k. everyone calm down” this is a team in a 2 year rebuilding phase that is 2 games out of the division crown on July 8th!! I fully expected the team to be 10+ games behind and Nathan already traded for more players to rebuild with! they are young everywhere and will make mistakes and continue to make mistakes.. in a 1 - 0 game that will cost you. why is Twin Rube Nation acting as if Twins just got swept by the Rochester Red Wings???
I can’t believe you guys are letting Delmon Young off the hook here. I’m also not sure where you’re getting the the .304 average. 17 hits out of 57 balls in play is a .298 average and 18 hits is a .316 average. What about the other first pitches where he doesn’t put the ball in play? He starts a hell of a lot of ABs with an 0-1 count. I think a more telling stat would be telling us what his average is in at-bats in which he swings at the first pitch, not just the ABs in which he makes contact w/ the first pitch. That’s like saying he bats .304 on Wednesday nights in the 7th inning when the team is down by 5 or more runs. In other words, who gives a rat’s behind. I don’t understand how the Twin’s hitting coaches don’t tell him before every at-bat, don’t just go hacking at the first pitch. Last night, he was the pitcher’s best friend. Delmon absolutely let him off the hook. He had been struggling to throw strikes, was getting tired out (in the high humidity) and Delmon weakly flails at the first pitch and taps one to the infield. If you’re going to swing at the first pitch, BE READY TO PUT A SWING ON IT!!! Delmon is either the dumbest hitter on the Twins or the most hard-headed. Either way, he needs a few days off so Span can run around out there and Delmon can learn a thing or two about working the count.
When is the
“Punto snubbed as All-Star” article coming?
Question: Did ESPN’s game feed last night appear to be boosting pitch speeds? I don’t think Scott Baker and Brian Bass EVER hit 95 on the guns consistently. Further, I don’t think Matsuzaka hits 94-95 consistently either… Thoughts?
I purposely avoided even looking at the comments section during/after the game last night and judging from what’s here this morning, I certainly won’t bother going back. I questioned some of Gardy’s decisions last night when he made them, but the only one that I found completely out of character was using Bass in the 8th. For a guy who’s mantra seems to be “go with what’s working”, it seemed an odd time to try out Bass in a new role.
That said, I’m not going to throw a hissy fit over a 1-0 loss to the Red Sox in Fenway. I loved watching Baker last night. It was a great game and sometimes you’re going to lose great games, unfortunately.
For all the people absolutely tearing into Young for his first pitch antics…weren’t you some of the same people riding Pohlad and co. for letting Torii Hunter (King of First Pitch Outs) go?
Which is it?
On a side note: What is the measurements of Fenway (especially in right field)?
I find that outfield wall to be INCREDIBLY low. Is because of how far it’s pulled in?
It’d be interesting to see the right field + baggie measurements comparred to the right field + short fence measurements.
I think Punto played a great game at short last night, great choice Gardy.
The ESPN guns also had Crain at 98.
Delmon left 7 runners on base–nuff said. Don’t blame this loss on Bass folks. Allowing only 1 run against the BoSox (good lineup even w/out Papi) is fantastic. That .300 BA w/RISP didn’t come to the park last night.
{Point of Clarification: .300 BA w/RISP as a team overall, not just Delmon.
I think the whole thing gets summed up pretty easily. We lost to the Red Sox in Fenway by one run. The Red Sox are something like 31-10 in Fenway this year. It happens. If we win one game there we will have accomplished something. Get a win there and move on to Detroit where we can pick up a series win or sweep. I don’t understand why people can’t figure this stuff out. The Red Sox are a very good team especially at home. Simple as that.
“I hope that my complaining about this will work as well as most of my other complaining has…
…..
Vavra sucks— 3rd in runs scored.
BC,
Your theory must be that your outrageously unfounded criticism of Vavra forced him to increase his IQ and resulted in a huge improvement in the Twins hitting.
My theory is that you were totally wrong about Vavra and are now trying to take credit vicariously for something that you (and your constituents) tried to torpedo earlier.
Two theories - anyone can choose one - no one can choose both.
Punto is back in the starting line-up replacing a deserved Harris. Welcome to 0 run Twins offense.
no problems here losing a hard-fought game. just frustrating to watch so many lost opportunities. 1) delmon swings at a first pitch fastball that nearly hits his face when the bases were loaded; two of them being walks 2)craig monroe goes up there swinging from his backside at a couple pitches out of the zone with bases loaded and 1 out 3) bass in the 8th makes no sense. sure he’s pitched well of late, but in different situations. (ie, not a close game in the 8th at fenway)
it was a fun game to watch, just disappointing because we didn’t execute like we can and should
Punto almost tied the game with his triple he was not at bat with the bases loaded twice.. I despise Gardy’s mancrush on little nicky but last night he did good Punto in moderation is fine(1 game in a week) hopefully Gardy will resist his urge to snuggle with Nicky and make him a STARTER
Pedro - the only thing I know is that the speeds Baker was throwing on ESPN matched that broadcast both in the park and on FSN’s too..
D&B even commented that they hadn’t seen speeds like that from them before but that both (FSN and Fenway) speeds matched.
I suppose as a technological factor, the broadcasts could have been using Fenway’s speeds which is why they would match but I thought they had their own.
I battled my tail off out there.
To me the most glaring fundamental missed play last night was monroe fouling out with sacks full and less than 2 outs. That is the situation where the batter needs to find a way to get runners home. That was the only time the Twins had runners in scoring position with less than 2 outs and they missed out.
swinging at the first pitch!
cuddy 12%, young 16%, morneau 18%, torii 15% and vlad 20%. get over it!
Not a BB expert, but do you sub DH Monroe in with bases loaded or do you keep Kubel who was hot last night ?
Young has the least discipline of any batter at the plate that I have ever seen. What’s with the first pitch swings?
And if fielding is sub-par as well. He can’t even bend over to pick up a ball.
He’s definitely a work in progress….
Will he not listen to the manager/coaches about the first pitch stuff?
How many times during a game does Dick bring up the Hall Of Fame. Does anyone have an estimated guess as to when Bert is actually going to short circuit and knock Dick out. Bert should start talking about cowboy hats and how much they really annoy him.
AJ, this was the first shut out since Punto has been back in the lineup.
Heck, they scored 12 on Friday (4 of which were off of Punto’s very own bat). Not to mention the 4 runs they put up against Lee (again one of which was off of Punto’s bat)
And when you consider that it was guys like Monroe and Young up there in bases loaded situations and failing to get anybody in….yeah…Punto was hardly the problem last night.
Next subject. That triple by Punto last night was awesome. I thought we had the game right then
brent,
“To me the most glaring fundamental missed play last night was monroe fouling out with sacks full and less than 2 outs. That is the situation where the batter needs to find a way to get runners home.”
I don’t see this missed play as being related to fundamentals (if that is your meaning). Sometimes the pitcher executes good pitches and defeats the batter in a given at-bat. The pitcher was not a bum. Give him a little credit.
Steve, it’s just one opinion…but I felt Monroe was wasted there. Kubel is just as likely as Monroe to drop one over the fence, but all you need is a flyball to sac one in.
Save Monroe for a Casilla/Punto type hitter when you’re down 1-0 and absolutely NEED that dinger.
“swinging at the first pitch!
cuddy 12%, young 16%, morneau 18%, torii 15% and vlad 20%. get over it!”
one problem with your premise Vlad,Morneau, and even Hunter are better hitters then Young right now and are experienced enough to 1st pitch swing at the right pitches and the right situation… Young will learn in time and be a fine hitter.. better then Hunter for sure IMO
Young will learn in time and be a fine hitter better then Hunter for sure IMO
At which point he will be traded. Anyone see Hunters 2 HR’s. K-Rod got save # 35 last night also. The most by a closer in the first half topping Smoltz’ 34
o.k. I am giving Hunter too much credit.. he still swings like he is trying to swat bees with a fishing net!!
“allowing only 1 run against the BoSox (good lineup even w/out Papi) is fantastic.”
Especially in Fenway.
Go Twins!
Fire Young will never be as good as Hunter defensively. Worst fielder I have seen in a while. Adam Dunn looks faster in the outfield cutting off a ball hit towards the gap
jimmy bee I never said anything about Young’s DEF.. and for all the “spider-man” catches Hunter made he twice booted balls in playoff games turning them into inside-the-park HRs that cost Twins the win
t it sounds like you are trying to talk yourself into being ok with punto playing everyday?
Bass, Monroe, Young, Punto… you dont blame players for doing what their management preaches.
Gardy’s quote is “he gets a lot of hits that way”. Which is an absurd way to look at it - being the manager you should be teaching “situational” hitting (like batting w/ RISP w/ 2outs or less than 2 outs) Not letting your “free swinging” “aggressive” hitters go up and hack away and then defending it when they fail… It’s called plate patience and recognizing what the situation has presented and then taking advantage (that’s what coaches are for - where were they last night?) You had two opportunities to bring in runs before you ever had to go to the bullpen or to a pinch-hitter…
If you have a 3-0 lead in the 8th, we probably dont care so much that Bass gives up the one run (then we get to use Nathan for a SAVE!! yeah!)
That loss is all on management.
Jeez, all this gnashing of teeth about Delmon and his first swings.
The guy obviously feels more comfortable up there using his game-plan that one that an internet blog commenter wants to force upon him. Heck, how good are you at judging a fastball coming in on your hands? Would you be ducking out of the way of a belt-high fastball?
Way it is, he is a major-league hitter, he obviously has talent. If his game-plan is to swing there, at what he considers a quality pitch, that is what he is gonna do, don’t bother to second guess him, it isn’t gonna change.
He has walked this year, so it would appear that on occasion his game-plan is to work the count, and as posted earlier, he isn’t even the worst offender on the Twins. Why not all this complaining about Morneau?
BTW, Young has very good speed for his size. Sometimes that is the problem, it is harder for a guy his size to redirect his route on a poor read. His real problem is poor reads it would seem, nothing more. Worst outfielder, hardly.
The only problem in this game was putting Brian Bass in the game in the 8th. That’s a joke. Brian Bass should NEVER EEEEVER go into a game that’s tied or a game where we are up by 3 runs or less or down by 3 runs or less. It’s that simple he doesn’t have big league stuff. He shouldn’t be on the team at all Bonser is the guy you bring in when you are up 10 runs. At least he has stuff. Kornecky or Barrett should be on the team in place of Bass. Or if you really love Bass SOOO much then get rid of Bonser. But you need another vet setup guy with Neshek out. Should make a trade if you really have no other option than to bring Bass in the game in the 8th inning of a tie game in Fenway. What were Reyes, Crain & Guerrier doing? Was the Bullpen that tired? Gardy is one of the best coaches around but that call cost one for the team.
As for the hitting that’s what happens sometimes when you play small ball. This is especially true against good teams. We always get killed in the playoffs cause small ball fails. If the Twins want to really be contenders for the crown this year they need another power bat. 3B would be the likely fit.
Personally I’d have taken more risks I’d have had Span squeeze bunt when Punto was on 3rd. I’d have tried to steal some bases as well. Not very aggressive. Gardy was playing it safe at Fenway. Whatever but small ball can backfire.
Why was Matt Guerrier not brought into the game instead of Bass? Bass is good for other occasions.
Span looks better than Young and Cuddyer.
Evan Langoria is what we need. I just don’t know what we would have to give up to get him
Ben D says:
July 8th, 2008 at 10:33 am
Span looks better than Young and Cuddyer.
I agree 100 percent
I still don’t get why Bass was brought in there. Yeah he’s been pitching OK lately but he’s not the best of the Twins middle relief. You gotta treat it like a setup situation and go with the more experienced Crain or Guerrier. I’m the biggest Gardy defender in the world but he makes some weird pitching decisions sometimes.
Typical….Everyone feels good about a 1-0 moral victory. A loss is a loss! A good team would have won that game last night because they would have actually fielded a major league line-up.
Why did the umpires let the Twins bat in the 9th? They already forfeited. Did you see the power at the plate that the Twins sent up? whoooooooooooooaaaaa
I was out of town over the weekend. Did Punto slide into home plate on his Home run?
“We had our chances” good one…not in the 9th
The 9th was a foreshadow of the playoffs. You can’t always bet on 3 chink hits and grit to win games against real teams?
Anyone know the over/under in Vegas today for how many time Blyleven says “At the Major League Level” during the broadcast tonight?
did any hometown media member ask Gardy why he brought in Bass instead of Crain? Guerrier apparently was tired
“Evan Langoria is what we need. I just don’t know what we would have to give up to get him”
Evan Longoria is what EVERY TEAM NEEDS!
The Rays would not trade him for Morneau OR Mauer.
Maybe for Morneau AND Mauer.
Come back to reality!
Hey Joe C., I’ve got numbers to counter all of your defenses of Gardenhire’s idiotic moves last night. He lost the game, no one else.
1) I’m not sure who’s arguing that Baker should have stayed in the game. I agree with taking him out. But…
2) Brian Bass? I don’t care how well he’s pitched over the last two weeks. It’s two weeks! There were three better options than Bass. Nathan, Guerrier, and Crain. Inexcusable.
3) Again, 10 games worth of stats for one of the best hitters of ALL-TIME! It’s still Manny Ramirez, and he made us pay.
4) Joe, why don’t you look at our hitters’ numbers? Monroe is hitting .141/.236/.250 vs. lefties this season and Kubel has a .949 OPS over his last 42 games, maybe our hottest hitter. And he also had a hit and a walk in the game. Oh, and Okajima had just walked Morneau, a lefty.
5) After his previous at bats, there’s no way Young should have been swinging at the first pitch. And the MANAGER should have told him that.
For someone who covers baseball for a living, you should know better then to defend such inept managing.
Brian’s right on… it’s hard to get runs w/ a AAA lineup in the 9th inning…
And Bass certainly was NOT the option in the 8th… maybe your 4th option or LAST option, but not 1st. Crain should have started, if anyone gets on, you use that guy that sits there all day and gets paid almost $100K to do so each game. Nicely done Gardy… nicely done…
Someone asked about dimensions at Fenway. The rightfield corner is ridiculously short, something like 297. The fence is only 4 feet high - I remember Jay Buhner jumping over the fence and going into the bullpen about ten years ago to take away a home run about 10-12 years ago. The counter to it is that it cuts pretty deep to the power alley, and is 380′ before you hit dead right-center.
Good game last night…really enjoyable to watch, and I was impressed the ESPN team’s coverage. Very knowledgeable about both teams.
“Anyone know the over/under in Vegas today for how many time Blyleven says “At the Major League Level” during the broadcast tonight?”
If its 50 or fewer, I’m betting the OVER!
Same for the “inner (or)outer half of the plate”
What an annoying and tiresome act!
We need to trade Young while his average is descent and keep Span up. We can throw in Lamb and Everett just to get them off the roster.
A good team would have won that game last night because they would have actually fielded a major league line-up.
A good team did win that game last night.
Unless we’re now counting Matsuzaka and the Red Sox as bums along with Lee, Sheets and the Brewers, or Webb and the Diamondbacks.
As far as Punto, I am more than happy to let him get playing time right now. The guy obviously is swinging a good bat right now. Why not let him keep swinging it? He has a good glove, so it’s not like the Twins are throwing out a bad defender in the field just so they can keep his bat in the lineup. They are playing his hot bat and his good glove, what’s not to like about that combination.
Sure, if you use last year as his basis for evaluation, you are gonna complain, but one thing is for sure, the Punto of 08 is not the Punto of 07. I am all in favor of Gardy riding the hot bat as long as it stays even remotely hot.
I am still wondering why he didn’t let Kubel swing there, He has a much better strikeout frequency than Monroe, and I seems that he is equally capable of hitting the ball in the air as Monroe is.
If Monroe is needed later, great, you still have him sitting on the pine in the 9th. if the game is still tied, or in this case when they are now down by 1 run.
I don’t find fault with Bass either. He has pitched well of late. He has been good in the role that he played of late, and bringing him in to start an inning is better than bringing him in to pitch with the bases juiced any day. He failed, and guess what, that happens.
Now, when it comes time to cut down to 11 pitchers, guess who I expect to see expendable? Guess who I expect people bitching and moaning about being cut??
How many people think that the same people complaining about Bass last night are going to be the same ones complaining that he was getting exposed to waivers too?
t it sounds like you are trying to talk yourself into being ok with punto playing everyday?
Where do you get that? Was it the part where I said “(AS A BENCH OPTION)”?
I suppose that was vauge enough.
I agree with previous comments about Delmon’s need to learn situational patience at the plate. However, I have seen instances where a pitcher walks two straight batters on 8 pitches, then grooves the next pitch, and the batter nails it. However, it appears Delmon does not care whether the pitch is in his wheelhouse or not.
I think a big missed opportunity was with Casilla on first with Mauer at the plate. The catcher had thrown out only 2 of 11 runners, and Maurer hits the ball hard, a recipe for double plays. I would have sent Casilla. The Twins have not been stealing much lately. I’d like to see more steal attempts and hit-and-run plays.
Yeah, I’m curious about hte lack of steal attempts. I know Gomez has had a few problems lately and has gotten caught, but if you have him and Casilla up at the top to cause chaos…cause some chaos.
Pitchers/catchers aren’t going to get psyched out if they odn’t think either is going to run.
Can anyone tell me if we have any good power hitting 3rd base prospects coming up eventually or in our farm system.
Lamb,Cuddy, Span, Humber, Mulvey, Everett and Boof for Evan Langoria
I dont think Gomez knows if he is going to bunt or swing as hard as he can until the pitcher releases the ball.
Gomez has to get on first base before he can steal second. Casilla should be leading off.
Lack of steal attempts = not getting on base. Gomez was 0-4 last night, Casilla was on once w/ 1 out and Mauer up… you could try there, but why? He scores on a double and goes to 3rd on a single, then Morneau comes up, you dont need to risk wasting outs in that situation early in the game. Another BIG problem is we dont walk, we had 4 against a guy that supposedly has control issues (Mauer, Morneau, Kubel and Span) 3 of the 4 are our best hitters - maybe the rest of the lineup needs to take some hints from those guys… maybe!?
3B prospects, not really… Matt Macri is in AAA right now, but he’s hardly the power hitting 3rd baseman we should be seeking…
Evan Longoria would be nice, but yeah… wont be happening…
Humber, Mulvey and Neshek and Span, Tolbert for Evan Langoria
Wow, tough crowd. That game was a great pitchers’ duel. I don’t think I’ve ever seen Dice-K that focused, and Baker matched him.
My only beef with Young is, if you’re going to swing at the first pitch, make sure it’s a strike. Don’t swing at shit.
“Humber, Mulvey and Neshek and Span, Tolbert for Evan Langoria”
That’s a joke!
Span should definately be in the starting lineup. Maybe Cuddyer could be used as a right handed DH, except for the fact that he strikes out alot with runners in scoring position. Tolbert and Span are definately two players the Twins need to keep in the everyday lineup because they are impact players who really make a differnce in games outcomes.
Span and Tolbert are both very fast and excellent hitters.
Wait a minute!
That trade package might get you “Evan Langoria”.
But, Evan Longoria?
Not even close!
Throw in Eva Longoria and the Rays might listen.
And then say NO!
Well, there is always Toby Gardenhire.
Awesome 3rd. base prospect in the minors.
Don’t wanna forget about Luke Hughes either.
Joe-
I gotta say I don’t like how you pretty much blame the loss on DY in your game story and then play the apologist for Gardy. At least acknowledge that he made some questionable decisions. Yeah, Delmon had a horrible game, but he wasn’t up with 1 out and the bases loaded in the 8th. That was Monroe, Gardy’s pinch hitter. You can give us the stats for righties vs Dice-K and lefties vs Dice-K but the fact is, Monroe has 9 hits in 68 AB’s and Kubel has 8 hits in 51 AB’s. I’d say they hit lefties equally well, except that Monroe’s numbers really just prove that he’s not as good of a hitter as Kubel is. I want the best hitter up in that situation and not taken out because convention dictates it. Know your player’s abilities Gardy! Not to mention the boneheaded move to put Bass in the lineup, regardless how well he’s been doing.
Sorry, I know this has all been covered already by everyone else in here, but I just wanted to say that I think your game story sucked.
Joe, the average baseball player hits about .300 on balls in play. Saying that Young is hitting .300 on first pitches he puts into play means nothing. It certainly doesn’t excuse swinging at pitcher’s pitches in crucial situations.
They were horrible at bats.
the bigger crime was Monroe not getting the run in with less then 2 outs
How bout Casilla not advancing to 3rd after the cut off throw went to the pitcher
The move that pissed me off was Monroe for Kubel. Boneheaded and stupid. Let this kid get some more confidence. IT seems that Gardy has a hard on for Kubel. He wont’t let him get going. If it was the other way around I most assuredly believe that Gardy would have left Monroe in. Cut Monroe and we won’t have this problem. And his 3+ Mill. Oh it’s guarenteed. Doh.
Bass sometimes appears to be a fish out of water out there, and the hitters almost dare him to throw the fastball, in which he almost always takes the bait.
Last night he seemed to flounder a bit and if I were Gardy, I would’ve given him the hook.
Let’s not forget the “luck factor”. As I wrote last evening, it is almost impossible to foul out at Fenway and, yet, the Twins fouled out three times last night. Good old Harmon Killebrew once said that “you know you’re in a slump when you foul out at Fenway”. 3 different guys fouled out. Lousy luck!
Joe:
Take heed of Shores’ point above — Delmon’s .300 average on first-pitch balls in play is irrelevant. The entire American League is hitting .336 when it puts the first pitch into play.
Also, there is virtually zero defense for bringing in Bass to start the 8th. Crain is the better pitcher, had not pitched the previous two days (same as Bass), and was apparently healthy/rested enough to be the next reliever called upon when Bass struggled. At the very least, Bass should have been pulled at the first sign of trouble, which was either giving up the leadoff double or allowing the runner to advance to third with less than two out. Sticking with Bass any longer than that, with Crain ready to go, was simply stubbornness.
On the other hand, the Monroe PH situation probably doesn’t belong on a list of reasonable grievances. In that situation, one absolutely needs a ball in play, and Okajima strikes out lefties at a significantly higher rate than righties, and Monroe strikes out at a slightly lower rate against lefties than Kubel. It’s close, but it is definitely playing the percentages — something Gardy unfortunately threw out the window when he brought in Bass.
t i agree with you on how punto should be used just giving you a bad time.
twins have been hitting lucky for weeks and can’t expect that to happen everynight. dice-k is a very good pitcher he beat us.
i did like souhans comment on young didn’t drive in a run and manny did …. and he hated to bring it up … like everyone is now comparing young to manny how stupid is that. of course sunday night manny struckout on 3 pitches and never took the bat off his shoulder but that showed patience so that’s ok.
Nice post Joe.
Some of you need to smarten up a bit.
Pinch hitting Monroe was absolutely the right move.
Career vs LH pitching:
Kubel: .216/.298/.319
Monroe: .262.312.475
Neither has hit LH pitching well this year, but I’ll take a RH hitter with a history of hitting LH pitching over a LH hitter with a history of not hitting LH pitching any day, regardless what someone has done over the past few ABs.
That is exactly why the Twins went out and got Craig Monroe, and Gardy absolutely should’ve used him there. He didn’t get the job done. That’s on him, not Gardy. Sometimes hitters fail. It happens. Anyone remember the Sox had first and third, no outs, and bases loaded, one out, earlier in the game. Did they score?
Bass is a questionable choice, but not that terrible. I don’t think you bring Bonser, Reyes or Breselow in, and Guerrier had pitched Friday, Saturday and Sunday so he most likely wasn’t available. That leaves you with Crain, Bass or Nathan.
Let’s look at the Bass decision this way…
How many baseball teams do you know that have won a ball game without scoring a run?
You could’ve brought ME in to pitch that game and it wouldn’t have changed the fact the offense didn’t do crap for squat to help the pitching staff out.
You don’t blame the pitching in a 1-0 game.
As far as Monroe vs. Kubel, their numbers this year say one ting. Their numbers career say another thing.
I didn’t like it much, but my only reasoning was a gut feeling and the belief that Monroe’s better used later on for a weaker hitter (would you have felt better seeing Monroe at the plate in the 9th than Span or Punto?)
“sunday night manny struckout on 3 pitches and never took the bat off his shoulder but that showed patience”
Manny was patiently waiting until the next game.
We need one more good MR to add
I bet Gardy will pinch hit Harris before letting Monroe F up another at bat.
We should have brought in Lamb as the PH.
I think Manny wants out of Boston he looks like he doesnt give a sh(*& what happens.
Jimmy,
How would Lapanta look with Manny’s dread locks?
How would Lapanta look with Manny’s dread locks?
You ever see the end of “Joe Dirt”
Doesn’t the baseball world have this discussion every year at the trade deadline?
Every year Boston is getting sick of Manny’s antics and is ready for him to go, and then he sits out the day of the deadline only to make his heroic one PH AB in the game (usually getting a big hit…did it against the Twins in 05 I believe, Papelbon’s first major league start even)
So really, this is just that whole Manny being Manny storyline that they resort to when they run out of real baseball news to cover. Because if you can’t find a good story, make one.
So really, this is just that whole Manny being Manny storyline that they resort to when they run out of real baseball news to cover. Because if you can’t find a good story, make one.
… Exactly, or like Brett Favre maybe retiring or maybe not, or maybe so, or maybe not… WHO THE F CARES?
Ben D when is Bert going to ravagely attack Dick for his next dumb question regarding the Hall Of Fame
Can we enter Bert next year into the 4th of July Nathans Hot Dog eating challenge
sane i was trying to make the point some players can do no wrong or do nothing right depending the eye of the beholder!
hope you’re sitting but some people on here tend to over react!
ggg Don’t tell anyone but Punto is an ok player but he gets the short end of the stick
Bert will win the hot dog eating contest, then bite off Dick’s ear for reminding him he still is not in the Hall of Fame.
Dick: Do you think that Jack Morris will be in the Hall Bert
Bert: I don’t know Dick
Dick: Do you think that Bob Welch will be in the Hall Bert
Bert: I don’t know Dick
Dick: How bout Dave Stewart Bert
Bert: I don’t know there Dick
Dick: Bert do you think that Schilling even though he has far less wins then you and he was on steroids will be in the Hall Bert
Bert: Hot Dog
Dick: Bert do you think that Dan quisenberry will be in the Hall before you Bert
Dick: Do you think jimmy bee and Ben D are the same person?
Bert: Sure sounds like it to me.
This one is on Gardy! Bass!!! Come on I can’t even get mad at Bass this was on Gardy! Bass is like willie erye or guerrier when he first got to the bigs!!
He should only pitch when were ahead or behind by some large margin!!
Obviously Crain isn’t healthy or something….I just don’t understand why he isn’t the set in stone set up man????
MarkW: The cool thing about the Favre thing is that he could end up with the Vikings.
I can live with a year of Favre in purple just to see the gnashing of teeth and tearing of clothes over in Green Bay.
Dick: How bout David Cone Bert should I try to vote in David Cone before you Bert.
jimmy don’t tell anyone delmon isn’t as bad as you like to portray him and may end up being a very good player.
i don’t have a problem with punto he is a good utility guy, i have a problem with gardy playing him full time when it seems like he tends to lose steam the more he plays and his ave. drops. maybe this is a renewal of 06 and not the rest of his career.
Behold Jimmy Bee. 4,286 posts in the last week, 38,097 for his career–37,071 about LaPanta’s hair alone–and not a single one worth reading.
Gotta be some sort of world blog record, no?
USAChief long time no hear. I missed you where have you been
GGG DY is a good for avg hitter. He just has no power and no fielding ability when a ball is hit towards the gap. Other then that his 280’s BA is fine. I will take it. I just want the power to start showing a bit more.
T says:
July 8th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Dick: Do you think jimmy bee and Ben D are the same person?
Bert: Sure sounds like it to me.
Nope. But Rick Flair might be lurking
Dick: Bert, Kyle lohse has 9 wins this year Bert. Hall of Fame imaterial I tell you Bert.
Jeez, no fielding ability for a gap hit? The guy may have issues, but I don’t qualify that as having NO fielding ability. The guy has made some sensational plays, and some on the EXACT opposite end of the spectrum. He needs to work on being a more “normal” fielder, then we can go back to complaining about his not hitting homers.
To me, most of his issues have been due to being too agressive, not being lazy or slow. Again, more an issue of youth than a physical issue.
Calm down T, we are not the same person. You need to lighten up a little in your post. Your to serious and your usually wrong as hell. Lapanta’s hair will be a funny topic as long as he wears that beaver on his head.
Me Too Everything that is hit towards the gap goes right on by him costing the Twins one extra base each time. Watch tonight I bet it happens at least once. I wouldn’t complain about it but every single night gets old in a hurry
Thank you Ben D. I think it looks like a coon skin cap on my big screen. I like when he and Roy Smalley interview together. I get a good laugh every time
Yep, Jimmy, you are right, EVERYTHING hit towards the gap goes right by him. Dang, you sure have a problem with perception don’t you.
Mr. T does not like any jokes or laughter on his blog. His next post will contain over 5,000 words and at least 6 paragraphs long.
where are rondel white and lew ford when we need them to track down those hits to the gap?
i do agree with sane on if span plays well the rest of the yr move young to right and span to left. cuddy to col for atkins.
I pitty the fool
GGG I would fully support the idea of a trade of Cuddy for Atkins but I am not so sure if Col would share the same idea.
GGG DY has Adam Dunn like foot speed in the outfield. Go Grease lightning
So where is Gomez during these Gap shots Young can’t get? Maybe those gap shots are just that…. Gap shots. The plays I thought Young screwed up on were the inside the park HR debacle, the ball that bounced over his head for a triple (Should have been a 2 base error in my opinion) and a couple that he ran over cause he couldn’t bend down far enough to pick it up. But were dbls anyway you look at it
I think a lot of fans were just mad because we haven’t seen this team lost a lot lately, and seeing them do it when they only give up one run to a All-Star lineup like the Red Sox is hard to take.
Nonetheless, you can’t blame a lot of people for the loss.
The only thing I was upset about was Monroe’s at-bat. When you’re up 2-0 in the count, you need to get something done other than a weak foul-out. All we needed was a groundball (with no DP chance) or a fly to the OF.
The Twins aren’t going to make a big trade most likely.
They are comfortable with Casilla and Buscher, and the pitching can’t be helped all that much.
But, what about Brian Roberts? We could put Casilla at short and Buscher/Harris/Punto could play short.
Peter says:
July 8th, 2008 at 7:32 am
‘Well Mr Christensen. Thought you are a writer at the Strib but this high 5 seems like s sum of arguments by Gardenhire’s lawyer.’
Great post!
JRLC is right. The math on Young’s “put in play” line don’t add up to a .304 average. I would bet that number came right out of Gardy’s mouth and Joe was but quoting him on it.
Furthermore, the stat is tenuous, if not outright flawed, in that it ONLY takes into count when Young actually puts the ball in play versus, say, when he swings and misses. When a pitcher is struggling in finding the strike zone, a 0-1 count is detrimental also in that it forces a hitter to swing, perhaps, at other bad pitches to protect the count. As for last night, Mauer, Morneau, and Kubel take good at-bats, work the count (they heard DiceK struggles with his location early in games), get on base, and all their efforts are flushed down the toilet with one swing ofthe bat by Young. Pitiful. Grow up, kid.
If “apoplectic” describes fans after last nights giveaway, there is no word to describe how fans, including me, now feel after the bullpen has just blown the second game of this series. So now we have there big ace tomorrow. Do I hear “sweeeeep”? And to think two days ago I declared that the Twins are the real deal. Looks like I spoke too soon.
