Mailbag: Hand-drawn merge signs and a bit of ‘bacon’
Posted on April 30th, 2008 – 6:05 AMBy Roadguy
Alert reader Jim has used a mix of technologies — e-mail and an old-fashioned sketch — to ask a signage question:
I’ve attached a crude drawing of some road signs. The top two make sense to me and are commonly used. The lower left sign is also commonly used, but it surely does not make sense when compared to the top two. I don’t know if the bottom right would be a logical sign to use when two lanes merge, but I like it.
(When Roadguy was a kid, he thought of the sign at the lower left as “bacon,” because it looked to him like two strips frying.)
I forwarded Jim’s e-mail to Heather Lott, signage maven at the Minnesota Department of Transportation. Heather gets some interesting correspondence — she once had a citizen send her a PowerPoint presentation on signs, complete with cars that moved. “I wanted to hire the guy,” she told me last week.
Heather’s thoughts on the signs above:
The top left sign is a MERGE sign, the top right is an ADDED LANE sign. The bottom signs are used for warning traffic that the lane is ending. The sign he drew on the lower left is actually no longer a federally recognized sign.
Perhaps the feds have decided that promoting bacon is bad for public health. Heather says Minnesota has some options for replacing the out-of-favor signs.
MnDOT policy is to use the “RIGHT/LEFT LANE ENDS” and “LANE ENDS MERGE LEFT/RIGHT” signs. We are doing this on State Highways through attrition. You may still see the older versions out on the roads since the compliance date is 2013.
So, Jim has good transportation instincts (as many people named Jim do).
32 Responses to "Mailbag: Hand-drawn merge signs and a bit of ‘bacon’"
The signs make sense to me because of driving experience, but if I hadn’t seen them before, some of them certainly wouldn’t make any sense. If you think about it, a “road narrows” sign is very similar to the bottom-left sign in Jim’s drawing.
Now can we tackle double turn lanes? Why, why, why can’t people get these right?
Most other states I have been in have dashed lines painted within the intersection to keep people in the correct lane when turning, but in MN it seems to be a very rare occurrance.
I don’t look for a fight on the road, but I don’t think I have ever been making a turn when the person in the adjacent turn lane didn’t come into my lane. I have learned to expect it every single time which is the only thing keeping me from an accident.
It’s embarrassing because my father-in-law is one of the worst offenders and when I point it out to him, I think he keeps doing it on purpose…
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…
No post somthing we can talk about.
Bikes vs. Cars debate
J - Just head over to Channel 5. They just threw a ton of fuel on an already raging fire.
I have been looking foward to the bikes vs. cars debate here again this year. (Would this be the third or fourth annual debate?) I guess the odd seasonal weather has delayed that topic, though.
I heard all about the Channel 5 thing on a local bike forum. Doesn’t seem like Channel 5 got too deep with it, unfortunately.
I watched the Channel 5 thing last night. It wasn’t very indepth. “Hey look, that guys just ran a stop sign!” They asked some of the cyclists why they did it and they all had very lame excuses.
They mentioned that most patrols won’t stop cyclists for breaking the laws, but suggested that it may start happening now that it’s getting to be peak cycling season.
(Can we now have a story about drivers running stop signs?? Just for equality’s sake?)
Bringing it back to the topic at hand… I used to be confused about what the black bars in the lower-left drawing were supposed to indicate–are the lanes getting closer together?
Then I realized that the bars represent the edges of the road, thus indicating that the road narrows and, presumably, a lane ends. More recently I’ve seen the same signed with dashed lines added, as in this picture:
http://www.ricesigns.com/pictures/W4-2L.gif
In Israel the sign used is similar to the lower-right drawing–see this picture:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/be/Diamond_road_sign_merge_to_single_lane.svg
Although in Israel the lines are white on a blue background.
“NEWS FLASH! DRIVERS ARE SPEEDING ALL OVER TOWN! AVERAGE SPEEDS A WHOPPING 5-10 MPH OVER POSTED LIMITS! LAWLESSNESS RUNS RAMPANT! ARE YOU REALLY SAFE ON THE ROADS??!! FILM AT 10!”
yawn. lets see them run that story. local tv news is &*(^! pathetic.
I already have sent KSTP my feelings on their story. I also asked them to put cameras on a dozen bike commuters and have them record their experiences. I started bicycle commuting part time last summer (4.75 miles each way) and was amazed how bad drivers really are, you get a whole new perspective on street level. I have also been cut off and had my car scratched by angry cyclists. I can understand that both drivers and cyclists have disdain for each other on shared roads. I thought KSTP’s coverage was unfair. They were filming on 3 way intersections? None of the cyclists interviewed (while moving) had anything intelligent to say though. Here is my answer to the question: Why did you not stop @ the Stop sign? MOMENTUM! I really don’t want to lose momentum and stop if no vehicles are approaching from either direction.
One more thing. Alot of this centers around W. River Road. This is my hood. There are great bicycle paths all along the river, walking paths too. The lanes are clearly marked.
The Bicycle Lanes are always crowded with pedestrians walking 2-4 wide. Please get over in your slow pedestrian lane… check back later 
J says:
None of the cyclists interviewed (while moving) had anything intelligent to say though
Yuki Says:
None of the cyclists they put in the story has anything intelligent to say…
Oh good… another season of bikes vs cars.
What gets me madder than hell is the arrogance of some of these people, cyclists and drivers alike. People who think they are so above the law, that the laws don’t apply to them. These are generally the most selfish, spoiled, good for nothing individuals out in society. They barely serve a useful purpose and probably would not be missed if they fell off the face of the planet. Society would be much better off without them.
I will not end my ramblings with one of those pathetic little smileyface icons. I just want to puke when I see those “cute” little things…
Tell us how you really feel, Spuzzz… no holding back.
Roadguy probably would censor me! It might offend some of the more sensitve readers.
Yeah, the debate rages on.
Same thing every time…
There needs to be some serious airtime and public education–last nite’s Ch-5 show was a real cheap disappointment. Not educational–just some good old sensationalism. Like a Jerry Springer Show for the road. If they show the other side soon, then there’s some hope.
A bit off topic, but KSTP will have to bring back Stan Turner, and continue their MINNPOST alliance, to stem the tide of sensationalism that has been their hallmark for so many years. I simply assume local TV news is more concerned about bridal shops in St Cloud, Hannah Montana, and other fluff, consumer-oriented stories aimed at married heterosexual couples with kids in Eden Prairie than real news that affects a broader audience, so instead of sitting through that drivel I instead tune into The Simpsons at 6 & 10 and read MINNPOST each day. Harumph.
Roadguy–
Maybe your connection at MNDOT can tell me why there is no signage on EB 494 that specifically says “Cedar Ave” as well as ” Hwy 77″ on the exit signs.
If we are going to have multiple names for roads, they should all be on the exit signs.
The reason this came up is because a geographically challenged friend recently attempted to come to Rosemount, but called after she got to Woodbury to say she was lost. The directions I gave her told her to take Cedar Ave. south off of 494. There is no mention of Cedar Ave. on the eastbound signage. I checked.
This should be corrected, as not everyone knows 77 and Cedar are one and the same.
Regarding the merge signs, I’ve been puzzled why so many drivers can’t figure out the meaning of the sign that designates a new lane begins (lanes do not merge).
My example is hwy 55 at southbound 494 in Plymouth. Traffic coming from 55 onto south 494 has a new lane that continues all the way to Woodbury, at least 25 miles. Even so, about half the drivers feel it necessary to immediately move to the center lane even if it means slowing down traffic or cutting people off. I’ve never figured this one out. See for yourself next time you’re driving there.
Downtown it’s not unusual to see a cyclist cut across 3 - 5 lanes of traffic, ignore the traffic signal, and go the wrong way on a one way street. I see it happen on Washington ave all the time.
DGB writes
“Downtown it’s not unusual to see a cyclist cut across 3 - 5 lanes of traffic, ignore the traffic signal, and go the wrong way on a one way street.”
One problem, from a cyclist’s perspective, is that traffic controls are designed with cars in mind. It doesn’t justify breaking the law, but it often can be safer to break the law rather than risk trying to follow the rules and getting run over by a vehicle that doesn’t expect a cyclist to try to merge across 3 lanes of moving traffic. Try riding down Washington sometime & see how it feels to try to merge across a couple lanes of traffic that are moving twice as fast as you & outweigh you by a ratio of 20:1. During rush hour is actually less unnerving than non-rush hours because rush hour traffic isn’t moving very fast - there are more cars, but they’re easier to track & avoid. Outside rush hour, cars are often moving at 40 mph +, some weaving in and out of traffic - most not looking for bicyclists.
bsimon says: “Try riding down Washington sometime & see how it feels to try to merge across a couple lanes of traffic that are moving twice as fast as you & outweigh you by a ratio of 20:1.”
It may be telling you something
I also love the logic of the mom on the KSTP report. She says she has to ride on the sidewalk with her kids, cause it’s too dangerous in the street. So I’ll cycle on the sidewalk and endanger pedestrians.
If you don’t want us on the roads and you don’t wnat us on the sidewalks, where are we supposed to ride? My bike doesn’t have a helicopter propeller so I can fly over the traffic.
THANK YOU Suz!!!
DGB, like it or not more and more people are going to start bicycling to get from point A to point B. And you are just going to have to learn to share the roads with us.
I think bikes on bike paths are great.
“I think bikes on bike paths are great.”
So do I. I also think bikes on streets are great.
“It may be telling you something”
Yeah, I prefer not to ride on Washington. But sometimes its the best alternative to get from A to B. I’m comfortable riding in traffic, so I occasionally ride in traffic. When I ride in traffic, I sometimes break traffic rules - particularly if breaking those rules will make my ride safer. Of course, if automobile drivers were following the rules - like allowing 3 feet of space when passing cyclists - perhaps cyclists wouldn’t feel quite so justified in breaking the rules.
DGB - ‘I think bikes on bike paths are great.’
They are great. But I don’t have a bike path leading up to my front door. How do you suggest I get to and from the bike path? Should I load my bike into my car, drive it THREE BLOCKS, and unload it so as to not have to ride in the road or on the sidewalk?
DGB - “I think bikes on bike paths are great.”
We don’t HAVE bike paths for commuters in Minneapolis, except for the couple of specific commuter trails.
Park paths in Minneapolis have the ridiculous speed limit of 10 mph. A kid with training wheels can go 12 mph. A 10-mile commute at 10 mph takes a whole hour. Federal guidelines for two-way multi-use paths/trails (with pedestrians, runners, skaters and everyone else going both ways) specify a 15 mph limit. Our one-way, separated bike paths are designed for 20 mph or more, but if you want to ride at that speed, you have to be in the street.
I took the MN Driver’s Knowledge test yesterday, and that sign on the lower left (that’s apparently getting phased out) was one of the questions on the test….maybe someone should tell the test-maker.
You got that right, Yuki, some spots in the city are so full of freeway closures and heavy traffic (plus 3.50/gal gas), that bike riding might be the ONLY way for some of us to get from A to B.
The sooner we all get along, the better traffic will flow through this mess…
Mary says: “Our one-way, separated bike paths are designed for 20 mph or more, but if you want to ride at that speed, you have to be in the street.
”
Yuki says: “I don’t have a bike path leading up to my front door. How do you suggest I get to and from the bike path? ”
Suz says: “If you don’t want us on the roads and you don’t wnat us on the sidewalks, where are we supposed to ride? My bike doesn’t have a helicopter propeller so I can fly over the traffic.”
bsimon says: “I sometimes break traffic rules - particularly if breaking those rules will make my ride safer. ”
I hope all you cyclists read the above posts.
Maybe you should get a clue that bicycling on roads with 4,000 lb cars, made out of steel, is a dangerous sport.
Maybe you should get a clue that pedestrains have a very negative view of bike riding on sidewalks.
Maybe you should get a clue that bike riders are probably the most self centered lot of navel gazers, in all of humanity.
Everyone - motorists and pedestrians should give you people the right-of-way. After all you are cyclists, and you are going to save the planet.
Easy, DGB, take a step back…. I am a cyclist, and I am one of many that says ‘we can all get along….’ I follow all the same rules I do in the car. I already know I am not saving the planet. I am just trying to save 3.50/gallon and my 45-year old waistline…
I don’t look down on anyone who doesn’t bike, and I don’t expect anyone to look down on me because I do…
Barry, I know guy’s like you and bsimon know what they’re doing. And I am the first driver to give a guy a break (yield the right of way, give him an opening, a flash of the highs, get a segueway going).
However, when I run into people on the sidewalk (54th & Nicollet), or people going north on Portland, it just makes my blood boil. Taxi Driver comes to mind
DGB says, “Maybe you should get a clue that bike riders are probably the most self centered lot of navel gazers, in all of humanity.”
WOW. Tell us how you really feel… no sugar coating here.
I’m with Barry… I ride for both of my bottom lines….
