A second-guessers delight
Posted on July 1st, 2008 – 8:59 AMBy Howard
If you don’t get something done at work today because you’re replaying parts of last night’s loss, I’m sure your bosses and coworkers will understand. There’s a lot of stuff to go over. It felt to me like one of those nights that happens during a season when things are just enough out of synch that lurking disaster can’t be headed off. Say one thing about the Detroit Tigers, nobody will ever accuse them of “doing the little things right,” the faux mantra of Twins baseball, but they sure hit the ball.
That being said, I’m wrestling with last night’s bullpen management, which is much easier to do in hindsight and which I’m sure Gardy, Anderson and the others have been doing too. (Just because Gardy was ejected doesn’t mean he wasn’t making the calls.) Jesse Crain, the first-call reliever, had put just 10 runners on base in 13 1/3 innings during June — and he stumbled. Except for one ugly appearane during the White Sox blowouts, Matt Guerrier hadn’t yielded an earned run for six weeks.
The odds of both of them being unable to get the job done were slim — and probably figured into two decisions.
1) Pulling Glen Perkins with one out in the seventh after Curtis Granderson singled and the top of the order was coming up, even though he’d retired the previous 10 batters.
2) Keeping Guerrier in the game to face lefty pinch-hitter Matt Joyce and lefty Granderson during the winning rally instead of using the second bullpen lefty, Craig Breslow. There were two Tigers left on the bench when Joyce batted for Ryan Raburn, both with suspect bats, so Detroit probably would have gone with a Breslow-Joyce match-up. Granderson has been mashing against everyone lately.
To me, all of the calls are toss-ups. Breslow had a stiff back over the weekend. He seemed to be fine in his short ninth-inning stint, but there’s a reason he’s been an expendable major-leaguer throughout his career and I can hear myself muttering — “Isn’t Guerrier supposed to get those guys” — if the winning hits had come against Breslow.
What else? I’m not sure Gardy needed to get ejected to make his point about the pitches that Gallaraga threw at Mauer in response to the Perkins/Guillen thing in the first inning. It was nice to see Perkins not change his game plan after that happened, working both sides of the plate and pitching another good game against a team that likes to hit lefties.
Denard Span showed some good offensive chops and made a skidding catch to open that game Cuddyer probably wouldn’t have made, but he misplayed Joyce’s hit into a triple in the eighth and, maybe, could have taken third on Gomez’s bloop single in the ninth. I’m not sure on the latter, but there are those who wondered after the game about whether he should have risked it. (That would have put him in position to score on Casilla’s fly out to center.) With Casilla and Mauer coming up, and only watching the play unfold on TV, I’m not sure. Anyone who was there was to weigh in?
I still think the bigger issue on Span is how much more we all like him now than we did during spring training, when he was widely seen as a guy who’d never amount to much. I like the way he plays and the way he carries himself. If you want a sense of the latter, read Patrick’s column about the relationship Span forged with Ben Revere during spring training.
After a game rife with wouldas, coulda and shouldas, it’s a good time to find something else to chew on. With that mind, I was pondering the comment made yesterday that if Bill Smith hadn’t made any moves in the off-season, the Twins “might be up 10 games” on the competition.
Let’s look at some numbers:
*Johan Santana: 7-7 with fewer strikeouts than innings pitched for the first time since he became a starter. He’d either have signed a long extension or would be leaving at midseason or after the season. We’d be all over the .500 pitcher with the diminishing velocity. It wouldn’t matter if his ERA was 1.01, 3.01 or 5.01, we’d be expecting more from our ace. Anyway, wasn’t he supposed to be even more of a strikeout pitcher in the National League?
*Torii Hunter, signed to a fat contract: .272 average, .328 OBP, .446 alugging percantage. Is turning in his lowest slugging numbers since becoming a regular. Home run pace will leave him about 10 below last year. If this is one of the good years the Angels are getting from him at the front of his five-year contract, imagine what lies ahead.
*Carlos Silva, getting $12 million a year. He beat San Diego over the weekend to end a nine-game losing streak. His numbers are the worst of his career even though pitching at Safeco was supposed to help him. Can you imagine if, after losing Santana, the Twins had kept him around to anchor the pitching staff. With outings like this one against Detroit, he should be nicknamed Gravedigger.
*Jason Tyner, tearing up Triple-A with .229 average in the Cleveland system. Luis Rodriguez is hitting .308 at Portland, in the Pacific Coast League where everyone hits at least .300. Rondell White? Does keeping Juan Rincon around count, too?
Yes, I know I’m being selective with personnel here. Sure, it would be nice to have Kyle Lohse and his 10-2 record around (We all saw that one, right?) and Matt Garza in the rotation, while still figuring out how to improve the outfield. But the point is that baseball can be as much a chess game of personnel moves off the field as it is strategy and execution on the field.
I strongly suspect that if the 2007 players were putting up 2008 numbers, we’d be howling for the heads of everyone we’d hold responsible. As it is, we’re on a pretty interesting ride.
(Folks, this is the last post until the end of the weekend. Getting away from the Internet and all that for a few days. I’ll be turning off the comments tonight. Have a good holiday.)
81 Responses to "A second-guessers delight"
but there are those who wondered after the game about whether he should have risked it.
I see it the same way as the “controversial” decision to not send Gomez from third back against (I think) Chicago.
It’s a ballsy play, and you better be dang sure the runner is going to be safe…and with Casilla and Mauer coming up still with one out, SOMEBODY should’ve been able to get him across with some combination of flies and base hits.
And you’re right, the bullpen decisions may have looked shakey…but at the same time the management was forced to punt when two of their normally dependable guys stumbled in key spots.
I think shellshock could’ve been an issue. And when’s the last time you looked at Guerrier on the mound and though “Man we REALLY need Breslow here.” ?
But it’s one game, and considering how it was the end of the world following Saturday and they still managed to win Sunday (against a statistically better pitcher of all people), I’m not concerned that this is the beginning of the end.
The Tigers are on FIRE right now, as are the Twins. The game was played tight, which was to be expected.
Hopefully tonight they bounce back and get the win to force it into a rubber game vs. a sweep breaker. I still have faith they can do it.
But man, Chicago right now…very frustrating to lose 3 games out of 15 or so and LOOSE GROUND.
Detroit’s gotta be thinking the same thing. They’ve been playing great and are still 5 back.
Has anyone else noticed the Franchise’s line from his start yesterday in Rochester? I’d say its probably his best of the year so far…
7 IP, 4 H, 0 R, 9 K’s, 1 BB.
Hey Howard, Joe or LEN, or anybody -> heard anything specific about this game?
Gladden and Morris said Tiggers are better then the NL teams Twins have feasted on I would agree this next 4 series stretch will determine whether Twins are true contender for division or just more competitive then a rebuilding team typically is.. I wish Mauer would have charged the mound.. bush move by Tigger pitcher
I love to second guess just like everyone else, but I don’t think you pin what happened last night on managerial moves. The simple fact is the bullpen didn’t get it done–Jesse Crain is apparently our new 7th inning guy, and he didn’t get the job done, and Matt Guerrier is apparently our new set-up guy, and he didn’t get the job done, either.
In the past I’ve been a proponent of bringing Nathan in at times for some 8th inning work, but last night probably wasn’t one of those situations. The thing is, this bullpen, while it has been adequate against the less-than-imposing squads, has yet to prove it can be counted on against the tough teams in the clutch. Last night was a perfect such opportunity and it failed; let’s hope that’s not a sign of things to come.
It’s too bad for Glen Perkins, too. He pitched very well and deserved a better fate…and the Tigers probably deserved a worse fate, considering all the miscues in the field, combined with all the hard hit balls for outs by the Twins.
So in the end, I won’t second guess last night…just chalk it up to a blown game by the bully, file it away in the back of your head for next time the bully is asked to preserve a key AL Central game, and move on, hoping we win the last two of the series.
Plenty of upside from last night, including…
Denard Span…I thought he was more than adequate in his debut, and no, he had no chance of advancing to third on Go-go’s blooper in the ninth.
Morneau…still clutch, even at 2-for-4…
Go-go…I liked his game last night…he’s proving he can bounce back from a bad game and move on…2-for-5 and he’s still only batting .265, though, which is kinda weird.
Buscher…he too managed to shake off a rough patch with a solid knock…
The one part we should discuss–and I tried to bring this up yesterday, but no one would bite…is Joe Mauer. Mauer was gifted 2 RBI last night in my opinion (the first was misplayed by the RF, even though the ball was smashed–the second was misplayed by the infield)…but when he was really needed to come through, he was unable to. So what, right? You can’t do it everytime.
Well, I go back to my thoughts as I left the Dome last Friday–amazed that Joe delivered a huge game winning RBI (his 8th inning HR) and wondering to myself if it was just me or if that has been something lacking for a star of his level…I remember the HR against the Royals in the last week of the 2006 season to win a big game…but I can’t remember much else (I know there has to be others). Am I missing something here…is this a non-factor…or is there something to it?
So I ask…Bert Blyleven noted that the Twins had exactly the guy they wanted at the plate in that situation with 2-out in the ninth (this came after Dick called Casilla’s flyout as if it was a HR)…do you agree with Bert’s assessment?
In the second half of last season, it was my opinion that Jason Bartlett was actually the most clutch hitter on the squad (even though Kubel had the best 2nd-half numbers). Disagree?
I was there last night, and in my mind Span wouldn’t have made it to third. I was hoping he would try, but as quick as Granderson got the ball in, it would’ve been close.
As I sat there looking at Perkins pitch count (90) and his recent success (sent down 10 of 11), I was a little upset that he got yanked when he did. I understand the decision, but there’s something to be said for pitching well and then yanking a guy. I still contend pitch counts are BS, just ask Bert, he’ll tell ya.
I think even more frustrating than anything Howard mentioned was the final line. Detroit - 3 errors Minnesota - 0…Detroit 5 runs, MN - 4. When a team plays like a little league team out there, they should lose to big league teams.
Also why was Gardy tossed, but not Leyland. I’m starting to think there’s a vendetta against Gardy in the Umpiring ranks.
Baker needs to plunk the first batter of the game tonight and send a message. Both benches will get warned right away and we will be able to watch Leland get tossed, not Gardy.
dejavu all over again with the tigers. save was in the 8th and nathan never got off the bench. there are a few teams, the tigers being one, where the mold needs to be broken when it comes to nathan and only pitching the 9th in a save sit. they can score to fast as has been shown to not have nathan at least getting ready in the 8th in case a runner gets on.
will never happen the book is the book and i’m afraid this is something that will happen again against the tigers.
i wonder if this will make gardy shake up the lineup?
“Denard Span showed some good offensive chops and made a skidding catch to open that game Cuddyer probably wouldn’t have made”
cuddy wouldn’t have been within 10 feet of that ball!
The one thing I really give Mauer credit on last night was his reaction to an obvious attempt to bean him by Gallaraga…part of me actually wanted Joe to charge the mound (or at least for the dugouts to clear)…
It seemed to me that warnings had to be issued at that point, so I was a little baffled by why Gardy was so upset (I get that he feels like his team is being unduely prejudiced with a warning at that point, but you can’t just warn one team, right?). I also thought it would have been completely proper for the ump to eject Gallaraga after the second pitch…isn’t the rule that if the umpire believes that a pitcher is intentionally throwing at a player, he gets tossed? I would have liked to see that…maybe that’s what had Gardy so steamed.
I, too, thought it was interesting that Gardy was given the quick heave-ho, while Leyland was allowed to stand and swear at Tim Welke for what seemed like an eternity…my guess is Welke is an old school ump who doesn’t like to showboat with ejections and Leyland probably wasn’t getting too personal…Welke also made a great call on that play.
The problem is Crain, Crain, Crain!!! I don’t care if he’s been pitching well lately or not. He’s shown a propensity to blow up at critical points in games ever since he had his great year a few years ago. If the Twins fall out of it over the next few weeks, we’ll probably be able to point to Jesse, the guy with great stuff who can’t handle the pressure (can anyone say “LaTroy Hawkins”?), as the amin reason. Unfortunately, Gardy, Andy and the rest of the brain trust have confidence in this loser. The Twins will never go anywhere with Crain on the staff.
I think the bigger issue of the two you mention was taking Perkins out of the game. Even that isn’t a big concern. He was up over 90 pitches with the “meat” of the tigers lineup coming up. he has not been all that good his last several outings, so he could go out on a good note. The bullpen has been a strength the last 4-6 weeks, so to make too much out of the struggles last night would be a little ridiculous. Chalk it up to “this just happens sometimes over a 162 game seasons.”
Roto,
Thanks for the insight from the Dome.
Plankton,
With that point of view, you ought to be commenting as Plunkton. 
I would agree with Plankton’s idea, except, that just might get Baker tossed, and we really don’t want that.
However at the same time, if Span wouldn’t have hesitated rounding 1st, he should’ve gotten a double on his single in the 9th. Then we don’t worry about going 1st to 3rd, because he would be there on Gomez’ single. Then Casilla’s fly ball ties it up.
It’s tough to second guess this much, but man it was just one of those games.
I’m with you gobbledygookguy, I couldn’t believe they didn’t at least start Nathan warming up in the 8th. The twins aren’t alone in only pitching their closer in the 9th, but it’s pretty frustrating to watch that as a fan. Since he’s our highest paid player, we should pitch him when we need him the most.
They won’t toss him right away. Only after a warning would he get tossed. Umps can’t take control of the game. They need to let the players work things out themselves. Old school style. Umps have really started to get full of themselves and want to control everything…except an inconsistent strike zone.
Jason, re: Mauer. Statistics can either refute or support your contention, depending on which statistics you want to use.
To support you, we could mention that Mauer has a .200 BA and .238 OBP in 21 AB during the ninth inning this year (per baseballreference.com). Maybe a catcher gets tired as the game goes along? On the other hand, he’s hit .500 when coming up in extra innings (obviously a very small sample size).
To refute your contention, however, his “clutch stats” (from baseballreference.com also) are pretty darn impressive. Consider he’s hit .324 with 2 out and runners in scoring position and over .300 in tie games as well as games within 1, 2, 3, and 4 runs. In fact the ONLY category he’s performed poorly is when the margin is greater than 4 runs. In those situations, he’s hit just .231.
Personally, I guess that tells me that I might not want to rely on him to start my come-from-far-behind rally, but I’ll take my chances with him any time the result is still in question.
It’s interesting, Crikket…
Note that I’m not really making a ‘contention’…it’s more of a question, really. (Although I do contend that Bartlett was our most clutch hitter in the second half of 2007, for whatever reason).
See, this is one of those things I’m not sure you can get to the bottom of through statistical analysis (I know that’s going to floor a lot of you). That’s why I ask people to go off memory. I can remember several games that were literally won by a big hit from Jason Kubel, for instance (Granny v. Boston in 2006, granny v. White Sox 2007, granny v. Tigers earlier this year, etc.).
It’s kind of one of those things you can’t put a finger on…I was comfortable Joe would give us a good at-bat last night…but I wasn’t convinced things would end well. I guess this is just a product of me growing up in the Puckett-era.
Tiggers are just a good team which exposed Twin’s bullpen issues with the injury to Neshek and Rincon never regaining his “juiced up” form
“Morneau…still clutch, even at 2-for-4…”
“Mauer was gifted 2 RBI last night in my opinion (the first was misplayed by the RF, even though the ball was smashed–the second was misplayed by the infield)…but when he was really needed to come through, he was unable to. So what, right? You can’t do it everytime.”
Wow. I’ve only read your posts for about a week or so now, and you are already predictable.
Go ahead and blame Mauer for not winning last nights game. Just realize that it makes you sound silly.
Jason,
That memory argument is quite an interesting one. I’m trying to remember big hits by Mauer, and it’s just not working. I remember multiple Kubel and Morneau shots, I remember a Mike freakin’ Lamb walk off single, and even a Terry Tiffee game winner for G’s sake.
So maybe Joe Mauer is the next KG. (Sorry don’t mean to take a shot at KG, but his clutchiness -new word- has been called into question)
“I guess this is just a product of me growing up in the Puckett-era.”
It really isn’t that hard to look up numbers. It really isn’t. Perhaps you should before you start saying things like this.
Joe Mauer is a career .333/.453/.499 hitter with runners in scoring position. Kirby Puckett hit .322/.383/.496. With 2 outs and runners in scoring position, Puckett hit .302/.392/.462 while Mauer is hitting .344/.476/.500. If you want to get more “clutch” than that, you can talk about “late and close” games, where Puckett has the edge in batting average at .313 to .270 for Joe. Of course Mauer gets on base in those situations more than Puckett did, .392 to .364.
But that’s ok. You don’t remember Mauer getting a “clutch” hit to win a game, so therefore I’m sure it didn’t happen.
harder for Mauer to be the hero when his value is a “table setter” he gets on base and waits for Morneau and Kubel to drive him in.. again the real reason for the loss was the bullpen
They won’t toss him right away. Only after a warning would he get tossed. Umps can’t take control of the game. They need to let the players work things out themselves. Old school style. Umps have really started to get full of themselves and want to control everything…except an inconsistent strike zone.
Actually, during the more heated series with the Tribe last year (or the year before) the umpires issued the warning to both teams BEFORE the game even started.
Pete D - settle down truth is Mauer hasn’t gotten alot of clutch game winning hits - 1)games aren’t won that often on 1 hit 2)there are 9 players batting mathematically Mauer is not in a position to get the game winning hit very often - I can’t believe I need to defend Mauer on this - Crain/Guerrier blew the game Mauer was not pitching!!
With all due respect Pete D, I’ll take more stock in Rotoblinder’s “analysis from memory” approach than I will your breakdown of Mauer v. Puckett, because engaging in that analysis this early in Mauer’s career is not really fair for Mauer…but if you’re going to do it, there can be no comparison.
Further, I never once blamed Mauer for losing last night’s game…don’t put words in my mouth. I thought I was pretty clear that in my mind, you pin last night’s loss on the bullpen.
Bottom line…I’ll trust a hardcore fan’s “memory” over deep statistical analysis that can be twisted and turned, when it comes to the ‘clutch’ factor.
JB, I believe you are correct.
What a joke - the fact that these players can’t work things out on the field the way things used to be.
Like I said, the one huge hit Mauer had for sure that sticks with me is that HR against the Royals in that dramatic final week of the season in 2006…we needed that one, as I recall.
I know there have been a few others, but I’m racking my brain to think of them…
Here is the solution. Have Reyes start the game and throw one pitch and plunk the first batter. He get’s tossed and then Baker comes in and ’starts’ the game. Problem solved.
LOL but then you lose The Big Sweat for the rest of the game!
Better solution: Have another starter come in and do it…that way if they get suspended it won’t really affect their playing time!
“Bottom line…I’ll trust a hardcore fan’s “memory” over deep statistical analysis that can be twisted and turned, when it comes to the ‘clutch’ factor.”
Batting average, on base percentage, and slugging percentage are hardly ‘deep statistical analysis’. The human mind is imperfect. It will remember what it wants, forget what it wants. Can you remember all the times that Mauer was in a “clutch” situation to win a game? How about Puckett? Kirby Puckett had 568 plate appearances in the 9th inning in his career. Can you remember them all? Or course not. No one can. We do, however, have records of how Kirby Puckett preformed in every single one of those plate appearances. We also have records of how Joe Mauer has performed in all of his 156 9th inning plate appearances. And those records say that Mauer is the better hitter in the 9th inning - he has a higher batting average, on base percentage, and slugging percentage than Puckett.
You might remember more game winning hits for Kirby Puckett than Joe Mauer. But that doesn’t mean a) that he actually has more or b) that Puckett was a better hitter in ‘clutch’ situations than Joe Mauer is.
You’re right, Pete D…Mauer is more clutch when the game is on the line than Puckett. Stats don’t lie…
on to the next topic…
I would say that the lack of memory of late game Mauer heroics has more to do with his AB in that situation. To be honest, I can’t really even remember situations that Mauer was up with a tying or winning run on. I know in KC I was there when Mauer and Cuddy hit back to back homers to win the game like 3 years ago.
I have a hard time going on straight statistics though. Their greatest strength can also be a weakness. They are so specific, but yet flawed. You cannot compare Puck and Mauer. Two different eras, two different hitters, and never faced the same pitchers. Joe is a great hitter, no one is arguing that, but as for being clutch, I’d pin that on Morneau or Kubel right now.
Jason,
While I don’t recall too many games where Mauer got the game winning hit, I do remember several (please, don’t ask me to name them, my head may explode)times Mauer has either scored the winning run or been on base when the winning run was scored. I can remember sacrifices (fly or otherwise) to move the runners over late in the game as well.
JP,
As I agree with you, I think you are half making Jason’s point for him. I would say scoring the runs isn’t necessarily the definition of clutch, as knocking them in would be. So whereas Mauer can get a clutch single in the 9th, Morneau will get that HR to win it. That’s not necessarily something Mauer has done.
I would have brought Nathan in once the tying run got to second in the 8th. He’s here to save games, and the game needed saving at that point. The Tigers have clearly figured something out on Guerrier - 9 hits, 6 earned runs and a .310 BAA in 7 innings this season.
The 9th inning last night pretty much showed that Mauer batting 3rd or 2nd wouldn’t help anything if all that was done to acommodate that was a “shift” up 1 in the lineup. (With Gomez batting ninth)
Unless you contend that since Gomez made the first out of the game, that instead would’ve been Casilla batting 1st and thus Morneau up with 2 out in the ninth (but then you’re also assuming that the 9th inning plays out the same with the names replaced)…or the rest of the game for that manner.
If we start to see these kinds of situations playing out more and more now that Cuddy’s out (face it, if you have no other choice would you rather see Cuddy 5th or Span 1st/9th?) then maybe its time to shift guys around.
But I think the best plan is to stick with the lineup as it was last night. They got 4 runs off of one of the Tigers better starters and watched bullpen toss one away.
Committ to Span while he’s here unless he REALLY sucks it up, then go back to the Monroe/Kubel DH/RF config and keep Span on the bench.
One problem with the last time Span was called up is he would bat ninth one day, leadoff the next…then some other spot the day after that. Give him a chance to have the same couple of guys around him and see how responds.
Gardy gets Punto back in the lineup this minor bump will be over and we continue our winning ways. Just can’t afford to have him on the bench.
Um….I hope you are joking re: putting Punto back in the lineup.
Bottom line…I’ll trust a hardcore fan’s “memory” over deep statistical analysis that can be twisted and turned, when it comes to the ‘clutch’ factor.
Actually, you’re still using statistical analysis - in baseball, every play is a statistic of one kind or another. In this case you’re just utilizing the only official stat ever to be repealed by MLB (the game-winning RBI) and doing so selectively (only the occurrences you remember).
If the Twins coaching staff pulls another starter who pitched well the whole game simply because his pitch count is “high” (90+?), I’m going to throw my remote control through the window. Clearly Perkins was cruising and the Tigers have beat up our bullpen all season.
Gosh, Twins fans bashing Kirby and Mauer, and now Punto is getting thrown under the bus! What is this blog coming to?
Capcom67,
but then wouldn’t you need a new window?
interesting thought, Capcom….that’s the one second guess from last night I guess I would at least entertain…you could tell from Perkins’ reaction he was none-to-pleased to be removed at that point…but honestly, I didn’t have a problem with it. The bullpen should’ve been able to hold a 3-run lead, needing only 8 outs.
I thought Gardy had a good point when he got thrown out. It was pretty clear on the first pitch that mauer was being thrown at. That was the time to issue a warning. The second pitch was the time to toss the pitcher, whether a warning was issued or not. The way the umpires handled it gave them a “free” second chance to hit Mauer with no chance for the Twins to do anything about it because of the warning.
I was at the game and I though Span should have gone to third. For whatever reason he hesitated when it was clearly going to drop and if he had gone right away he would have made it.
In my mind this was a must win game, every bit as important as the games played in Sept. We were playing against a divisional opponent that was the hottest team in baseball. As I stated last night (while the twins were batting in the 7th), I wanted Nathan up and getting loose before the top of the 9th. Nathan is an elite closer and should be called on from time to time to pitch more than one inning. Some of the counters I’ve heard (or expect to hear) to that is:
Its the first game of the series. Why use him and not have him available for game 2.
Its only June, not a must win game in Sept.
I did a little research on Papplebon. He has pitched in more than one inning in 5 games so far this year. Three in April, THREE!!. Over there in Boston they know the games in April are as important as the games in June and in Sept. Two of those April games were within two days of each other. The last game he went more than one inning was against Houston (NOT EVEN A DIVISIONAL OPPONENT!) and that game was the first game in that series.
Another interesting thing to me was that Leyland kept Zumaya in the game for more than one innning. Zumaya fresh off the DL!!!! Leyland was going to lose with his best relief pitcher in the game. Gardy lost it with his riding the pine.
Again I thought this was too important of a game NOT to have Nathan available in the 8th inning.
Punto needs to play, he gets after it and battles. Far superior in every way to our present infielders. Casilla is a flash in the pan and won’t last. Give Nicky the contract extension he deserves, you can see it has bothered him not having it done.
Does anybody else think that Young should be in RF and Span/Kubel in LF/DH with Cuddy on the DL? To me, Young hasn’t looked comfortable in LF all season and Span/Kubel are more suited to playing LF. And, watching the game on TV, I thought Span should have had a better read on Gomez’s single and should have been on 3rd.
Punto does ‘get after it and battle’ but that doesn’t mean there will be productive results. Last year and this year the results have been next to nothing.
When Tolbert comes back I think Nicky’s time in MN will be numbered…if they aren’t numbered already.
jp agreed! he should have been at least warming up when the 8th started. I don’t think this has to be the rule but against teams like the tigers, who have a record of beating our bullpen up, it is the exception to rule gardy needs to follow. at this point in the season the gms with both the tigers and sox have extra meaning because they count 2 gms in the standings.
kmack,
“Does anybody else think that Young should be in RF and Span/Kubel in LF/DH with Cuddy on the DL?”
Yes.
I think the Delmon needs more games in LF argument is crap.
Span can cover LF better and Delmon has a rightfielders arm which Span does not.
Its all about keeping Delmon and Cuddaver comfortable instead of lining up the best team, on the field.
IMO, a little discomfort might jolt some players out of their Sensory Deprivation Chambers and get their juices flowing.
Or as Jim Wacker used to say:
“get their hearts a-pumpin’ and their corpuscles jumpin’”.
imo it doesn’t make sense to have both young and span playing new positions.
i think gomez’s hit was a broken bat hit which makes it more difficult to judge what the ball will do. i have no issue with span on the play. he was still in scoring position if either casilla or mauer had produced.
Bullpen pitches thrown (and batters faced and how they bat) along with the results yesterday:
Crain 6 (2, R R) result: BB, 1B
Reyes 5 (2 S L) 1B, FC
Guerrier 30 (7 R R R L L R R ) K, 1B, 1B, 3B, 1B, GO, FO
Breslow 6 (2 S L) GO, K
Bass 4 (1 R) K
Here are the problems I have with this:
a. Pulling pitchers after 5 or 6 pitches does not make any sense. They ended up using 5 pitchers for 2.2 innings. That’s about 2 too many.
b. Inconsistency: Crain was pulled after the first 2 men reached and a lefty (actually a switch hitter) came up, Guerrier was left in when he gave 2 consecutive hits to face the next 2 lefties. Same situation, different choices. Smells like panic to me and the other team can smell panic.
c. Up 4-1, 6.1 innings why use Crain instead of Boof (2.25 ERA 5K the last 2 weeks) or Bass (2.70 ERA 8K the last month)?
d. Someone needs to tell Gardy and Andy and Ullgy that RHBs bat .171 (46PA) and LHBs bat .214 (30PA) off him this year. Ideally he should be the first lefty up and stay to face RHBs.
btw, the above have nothing to do with hindsight. They are matters of philosophy and consistency
This game is in the books. Let’s get the next 2.
on d. above should be Breslow
Right now Span and Young are playing new positions, Young was a RF in Tampa Bay and Span was a CF in the minors.
Howard - Span had no chance to advance. RF charged hard and cleanly fielded the one-hop broken-bat hit in very short right field. Span’s fast, but he’s not going to outrun the throw at that range, even if it’s off-line. Cannot make that out at third with only one out, two productive hitters coming up and little chance of a double-play (Casilla batting with Gomez at first).
Prediction for tonight’s line-up vs. a southpaw. I don’t agree with it but this is what I think Gardy will do.
CF Go-Go
2B Casilla
C Naked Guy
1B MVP
DH Monroe
LF DY
SS Harris
RF “Darnell” Span
3B Pun-terrible-o
Here’s my line-up if I were in charge
CF Go-go
2B Casilla
DH Baby Jesus
1B MVP
DH Monroe
LF DY
C Naked Guy
SS Harris
RF Span
This gives the almighty Mauer a day off from catching and gives Kubel a break since he’s like 1 for 50 vs. Robertson lifetime with 40 K’s.
If Sheffield cant catch up to a fast ball, why continue to play the SS more in the hole. That late inning hit should have been an out. Also, if Punto is such a great fielder, why wasn’t HE in there witha 4-1 lead. If someone is a defensive replacement/whiz THEN USE ‘EM
kmack,
The Twins are trying to get Delmon comfortable in LF and have Span keep RF “warm” for Cuddyer.
That is when comfort is prioritized above “best lineup on the field” which would be Span in LF and Delmon in RF.
I have already heard the arguments for comfort. I think those arguments will result in the Twins ending up comfortably on their home sofas in October.
Frm MILB: OF Ben Revere’s hitting streak has reached 22 games, a hot stretch that has raised his batting average to a Minor League-leading .411 (34-for-78) with 13 doubles, seven triples, a home run, 27 RBIs and 32 runs scored in 48 games.
Well its 23 now and .418 “second guessing” implied here. Just promote him to Ft Myers!!!
Follow up to my previous post.
Joe Mauer must, and I repeat MUST, DH on his “off days” from catching if the Twins are to be taken seriously. Who cares if both catchers are in the game. If Red Dog gets hurt and we lost the DH for a couple of innings WHO CARES!!!!!!!! So what if we have to be an NL team for a trip or 2 through the order. It sure didn’t hurt us in Milwaukee or San Diego.
Span was standing on the SS side of 2nd when the bloop hit the ground. If it had been caught, he would have been doubled up. So, don’t stop. Just keep running
i nearly always agree with you sane and in the future young in rf and span in lf is probably the best we have. maybe after the break give both some bp / pre-game practice in the new positions than trade cuddy+ at the break, if possible, for either atkins or kouzmanoff getting a power hitting 3b with more historical power than cuddy. cuddy’s power is overrated he ave about 15 hr yr other than the 25 in 06, last yr and this he hasn’t shown that wasn’t a one time career yr.
I like Cuddy, but it seems like he’s injured alot.
I understand that the Twins have a great bullpen, but I would have liked to see Perkins have a little more of a chance last night with a 3 run lead to get out of the 7th. He earned it in my opinion. It just had to be eating away at him to see the pen sqaunder the lead. Plus Perkins seems to have Detoilets #
I’m against pitch counts generally, but Perkins and Slowey are both coming back from recent injuries, so in their cases, having them on a strict pitch count is the way to go.
I’m watching the FSN replay, and they’ve just jerked Perk.
Incredible. He still had good velocity. There was no rally going. A 3-run lead. 91 pitches. Perk having a career-high in K’s.
??????????????????????????????
I also am of the opinion that Perkins should have been given one more batter before being pulled in the seventh,but the Twins are so predictable in this type of situation it hardly warrants discusion.My point would be,if you thought Perkins was running out of steam after facing two batters(and throwing maybe 5-6 pitches),why not just bring Crain in to START the seventh inning?
On other thing That has been a bug in my ear since Casilla was called up.Why the reluctance to let him steal a base?Late in the game last night was another example.Casilla on first,Mauer up,no stolen base attempt,Mauer grounds into double play.Casilla has a tremendous stolen base % in his brief ML career but IMO the Twins don’t take advantage of it.
I posed this question before and I know no one here probably knows the real answer,but is it possible Casilla isn’t stealing because Mauer doesn’t like a guy running during his AB’s? If thats the case Joe,get used to it.Casilla on second base is a RBI waiting to happen for Mauer.Maybe Gardy is just supremely confident in Mauer,but he is under- utilizing Casillas talents in that case, IMO.
well doug gomez hasn’t been steeling much either. the teams running game has come to a halt the last month. by design or situation the stolen base is not a factor anymore.
twins stolen bases:
gomez; 11 april, 6 may, 4 june
team; 27 april, 18 may, 7 june.
7 stolen bases in june doesn’t seem like a running/speed team, does it?
gobble-Gomez I can understand getting the reins pulled in ,he went through a stretch were he wasn’t very smart about it.Casilla has shown much better aptitude in his small ball game IMO.and at any rate,the Twins can’t afford to not use their speed.
[…] was lot to second-guess, a StarTrib blog […]
gobble- sounds like I’m preaching to the choir LOL.But with Mauer leading the team in GIDP some Movement by Casilla might have been in order.Hell the Tiger’s sent old man Sheffield late in the game,stayed out of a DP, and scored a run if I remember correctly.
Yeah, Gomez needed a little guidance on when to steal and when not to. But those stats mean NON-Gomez SBs went from 16 in April to 3 in June. I know the team hit better in June so maybe there was less need to steal in order to manufacture runs. But wow… that’s next to none. Gotta reverse that trend and get the wheels rolling again.
When I saw Ulger making his way to the mound I thought he was going to tell Perkins to steal 2nd. LOL
Then I remembered Gardy got tossed
Only second guess for me is yanking Perk…he pitched well to that point. If he’d already hit 100 pitches, then I’d be more agreeable to using the bullpen. He wasn’t laboring out there…he hardly looked like he was breaking a sweat. The youngsters must be so frustrated at some of the leads that have been blown by the pen. Blackburn should have a better W-L record but for the pen.
Does anyone else out there see Crain headed down the same path as Rincon? Never going to be as good again and after much hand wringing by Twins management, let go/traded/or whatever? I just go “uh-oh” these days when I see him coming into a game where there is still enough time/outs for the other team to come back…same thing as I used to do when Rincon headed for the mound.
Also am I the only one who thinks that when the Twins needed a GIDP BIG TIME that Bass should have brought in? He has pitched very well including in some pressure situations and has one of the better sinkers, something that I can’t remember Crain having.
If the boys are out of it in Sept. I’d love to see the FO bring up as many pitchers as they have stashed at Rochester to debut for possible ‘pen slots next season. I think with all the experience they’re getting this year, we will have an awesome and extremely young (as in they should have the stamina to pitch more than 90 pitches/game)rotation next year plus Nathan to close. Getting to Nathan is not as automatic as in some previous years. Speaking of Nathan I agree 100% with whoever did the Papelbon analysis. Gardy is so locked into “whatever works good, let’s not touch it” that he ends up with no imagination and no guts. I didn’t need the other blogger’s analysis to remember quite vividly that Francona has called on Papelbon in the 8th on several occasions that I can remember.
Totally different subject and hopefully someone will answer befor Howard shuts this down and heads for his long weekend: I read somewhere that Kevin Slowey is one of the two guys in that McDonald’s coffee commercial. Is that true?
I don’t pay much attention to the commercials and if I hadn’t read it somewhere I would never have noticed that it’s Slowey. I don’t live in the TC anymore so don’t get the pre- and post-game interview/analysis shows. Does anyone know why he’s in the commercial and why so understated that you have to be told that it’s him since he’s not exactly wearing anything with a Twins logo. BTW don’t tell me the other guy in the commercial also has name recognition???!!! If so, who’s he??
Another thing that’s popping up in stuff on the web are the hilarious stories about the “haunted” Pfister Hotel in Milwaukee. Assuming this is not just a hoax and that some of the players/coaches really are bothered, can the Twins not stay somewhere else? They play there every year…the last thing we need is players and/or coaches not getting any sleep for three days.
No Slowey is not in the McCafe commercial.
Unless there is another one he might be in.
I was there last night.
I thought Span could have made to third. He got a good jump on the bloop hit and was already past 2nd when Granderson fielded. The ball took an awkward hop — probably spinning a bit, and I don’t think Granderson could have made a great throw. If he goes, out or safe, Go-go ends up on 2nd anyway.
Putting in Reyes to face a Guillen didn’t make a lot of sense either. Crain probably would have been more effective, and we could have saved Reyes for a better leftie than Joyce, whom Reyes retired easily.
On what planet does the our bench get warned first, and our manager ejected, after the opposing pitcher throws two behind Mauer?
What was up with that stupid center field camera last night, am I the only one that dislikes that view? Also, if Glen Perkins had throw 10-15 pitches more in the game last night, the Twins walk away as winners.
tim’s posts at 12:23 and 12:28 are right on. And they show that the Twins should have won the game but only beat themselves.
Not to mention jerking Perk too early….
I wish that Dick Bremer would stop using the term rabbits for any group of player that play for the twins. Bremer did have the call of the day on ESPN with the call on the Clete catch though.
