The attack of the oddly named home-run hitting catcher
Posted on July 21st, 2008 – 10:10 AMBy Howard
If your name is Taylor Teagarden and you’re a jock, you’d better be good. Just sayin.’
After the aforementioned Mr. Teagarden (it only seems right to use the honorific) was the offensive difference in yesterday’s 1-0 victory over Scott Baker, it brought to mind the other home run by an unfortunately named catcher that once did in the Twins: the legendary Jamie Quirk home run in Cleveland back in ‘84 that pretty much KO’d the Twins from the pennant race.
The Quirk home run, in the final series of the season, was his only hit of 1984. Mr. Teagarden’s homer is his only hit with the Rangers so far, and there’s a good chance it will remain so for quite a while. Mr. T has been named to the Olympic team and, in order to participate in Beijing, he needs to be returned to the minors by Tuesday.
An aside: The Rangers current have three catchers on their roster. Mr. T, Gerald Jarrod Saltalamacchia and Maximiliano (Max) Ramirez — and one of them is almost certain to go when the Rangers reactivate two injured players. Saltalamacchia was sick this weekend, which explained Mr. Teagarden’s call-up. Someone on a Rangers blog has suggested the team combine the catchers into one “super psopect” who would be named Maximus Saltalamacchia-Teagarden. While that won’t happen, Lord knows that Saltalamacchia’s sister better not do a marry-and-hyphenate deal with Mr. T.
My hope is that when the season gets reviewed we don’t look back on Sunday’s game as the one that made a difference between playoffs and no playoffs because of a silly-named catcher and the home run that was the only blip against Scott Baker’s excellence.
Of course, and I repeat myself, to even be talking about playoffs v. no playoffs is a bonus.
OK, enough fun with names.
Now, the Twins need to go to Yankee Stadium and not have another series like they did in Boston. The Twins have shown an ability this year to learn from their setbacks and I hope the focus they showed they weekend can be maintained. My feeling about Sunday’s game is that they were simply shut down by a good pitcher who was on top of his game and had the Twins number for the second time this season.
That being said, I hope that Justin Morneau didn’t wake up this morning and say something like, “Dang, my hand really hurts.” In this season of hand and finger problems, seeing him get smacked by that CJ Wilson pitch in the ninth inning totally bit.
The other thing is that Gardy seems to be softening on his idea that Gomez must bad leadoff. Over the weekend he said, “If I have to move him down, I have to move him down. I’m just giving him every opportunity, and we’ll see.” Yesterday, the Twins pretty much gave away an out in the ninth when Wilson struck out Gomez on three fastballs. Batting against lefties isn’t the magic solution for Gomez that it was earlier in the season and, while the Twins totally benefit from his range in center field, this would be the right time to switch up the battindg order and put Span and Casilla in the top two spots.
I hope the people who counsel Gardy are telling him the same. You can add your internet voice by voting in a “poll” on the subject here.
Did anyone try to adjust their TVs or get their calculators when Delmon came to the plate Saturday night and his batting average was .300? It was even better that the hit getting him there was that monster home run to center field that was measured at 430+. Going back to June 1, when Gardy got comfortable with the idea that Delmon wasn’t going to break Cal Ripken’s streak, his numbers have become pretty slick. In that time he has a .350 batting average/.367 onbase percentage and .503 slugging percentage. He makes a fine No. 6 hitter in the order and, if Gardy stays with Monroe as the DH against lefties, I’m wondering if he should try Delmon in the No. 5 spot and hit Monroe seventh.
Monroe’s lack of production (and Cuddyer’s absence) are the reasons the Twins have put a right-handed hitter on their wish list along with another right-handed reliever.
OK, the bullpen is rested and two hot teams are on the schedule for tonight in New York. It’s a 6 p.m. start. No errands after work tonight.
other people are here too
95 Responses to "The attack of the oddly named home-run hitting catcher"
Howard, yes, Delmon had a stellar series. We have always heard he was a ‘late starter’ or whatever so hopefully that will hold to form for this year. Now, if he could work on taking better angles on balls hit to left field… How come he looks so fast running the bases but running after a ball in left field he looks like an old man?
I hope Rick Anderson or somebody told Scott Baker that it was OK for him to throw that pitch to the Intolerable Mr Teagarden with the hope of preserving his perfect game. Perfect games are a rarity indeed; 1-0 losses after 6-0 and 14-2 wins are also rare. I just hope Baker doesn’t get too down on himself.
Twins hitters just had a letdown after that 14 run explosion the night before..predictable especially going against Ranger’s best pitcher..
so should Twins pull a Brewer’s trick and partly “ALL IN” ?? trade a couple of good pitchers for Beltre?
This loss would’ve been a bigger blow to Baker had he not pitched as well as he has coming into it. He can view it as “Well, I got beat by a pitcher throwing a good game” vs. “I FINALLY get a good outing and they blow it”.
All three starters should be very proud of what they accomplished this weekend. Holding a lineup with four All-Stars (one of which is the current batting title leader, another which is a potential MVP candidate, and another which is apparently the 2nd coming) to 3 runs? Awesome.
trade a couple of good pitchers for Beltre?
It would be a “couple” of top prospects as well as one of the four young guys in the rotation.
“My hope is that when the season gets reviewed we don’t look back on Sunday’s game as the one that made a difference between playoffs and no playoffs”
I think I understand your point, Howard, that Teagarden’s hit could be a season breaker. However, you could also point to the Twins’ lack of hitting against Padilla or as the deal-breaker yesterday (they certainly weren’t going to win 0-0). Or you could point to myriad other factors.
I really thought Mauer was going to score in the ninth-inning yesterday.
wheels…too bad 1-0 losses aren’t rare for Baker.
I’d rather not mess with the kids in the rotation now. Don’t mess with what is going so well. Package Duensing, Manship, and one or two left side infielders (Plouffe, Buscher, Macri, etc…) for Beltre. Just not any of the current kids who are up now. (or Liriano, of course).
yes fire, One of my post’s from Lavelle’s blog:
TwinsNotesGuy says:
July 21st, 2008 at 10:29 am
For comparison’s sake between our starters and Liriano at AAA in their last 10 games:
-Livan Hernandez
4-4, 6.59 ERA, 57.1 IP, 25 Ks, 11 BBs, 4 Quality starts, 4-1 at home 0-3 on road.
-Nick Blackburn
3-3, 3.54 ERA, 61 IP, 34 Ks, 8 BBs, 7 Quality starts, 2-1 at home 1-2 on road.
-Scott Baker
4-3, 2.66 ERA 61 IP, 49 Ks, 10 BBs, 7 Quality starts, 2-1 at home 2-2 on road.
-Glenn Perkins
5-1, 4.32 ERA, 58.1 IP, 28 Ks, 18 BBs, 6 Quality starts, 3-1 at home 2-0 on road
-Kevin Slowey
6-2, 3.88 ERA, 62.2 IP, 45 Ks, 2 BBs, 6 Quality starts, 3-1 at home 3-1 on road.
-Francisco Liriano (at AAA obviously)
8-0, 2.53 ERA, 64 IP, 68 Ks, 11 BBs, 8 Quality starts, 4-0 at home and on road.
Looking at those numbers if any of the 4 young starters is tradeable, I’m thinking Perkins, and he would be the one I’d be most willing to part with anyway. You can argue ‘oh but hes a LH SP and they’re hard to come by’. Well, so is Liriano, and he’s far more dominating.
I can’t get over Slowey’s numbers, mainly only 2 walks over 62+ innings, he’s looking more and more like Radke, maybe even better, and in 3 of those starts he’s held the team scoreless.
Livan is killer at the dome, but not so much on the road. In a perfect world he’d get moved to the bullpen for Liriano and Bass gets sent through waivers to AAA, but not gonna happen the way I hear it.
Baker’s been pretty damn good, but hasn’t been getting the run support of the others. Gotta keep him, he’s looking like a good #1 or a superb #2 in the rotation.
Blackburn looks even more Radke like than Slowey, as in he’s not K-ing as many guys, and still walking not very many.
Perkins record is awesome but his stats are underwhelming.
If a Perkins, Joe Benson, Anthony Swarzak/Duensing/Cole Devries type deal is good enough for Seattle, I say do it.
I like Perkins and the fact that he’s a MN native, but there’s this guy at AAA that we’ve been waiting for to come back and be our staffs Dominator, you’ve got to get him up to the MLB team for a pennant race, there’s no excuse not too.
If a trade is the only way you can envision that happening right now, I would do it without hesitation Bill Smith.
If Liriano dominates again tonight, its gotta happen.
Good night of Pitching in the Twins system by the way, Shooter Hunt goes again tonight for Elizabethton as well. I imagine if he repeats a 2K/IP performance as he has in each of his first 3 outings they have to consider moving him up and out of the Rookie League.
Milwaukee is going “all in” because they know they’re losing Sabathia and Sheets after this year and it could be several more before they sniff another shot at the playoffs. That is not the Twins’ situation. I’m fine with dealing some prospects, given that the major league roster is already so full of youth that there aren’t going to be a lot of openings in the near future anyway… but go “all in” and trade guys we are going to need in 2009-10? No… I don’t think so.
If Morneau isn’t hurt, this is going to be a great series with the Yankees. I love the pitching matchups. If Doc turns out to be the latest in the long line of hand injuries costing significant playing time, this will be a very, very long week.
Did Howard sleep in today or something? Oh well, better late than never…
D Young: yes, seeing his average at .300 was refreshing, but dare I say it’s a quiet .300. D Young still isn’t driving in runs or hitting the ball over the fence with regularity, and I’m pretty sure we didn’t bring him in here to mimmick Punto’s offense from 2006. So at .300, D Young keeps himself in the lineup, but I wouldn’t be singing the praises too loud, just yet. How about a clutch hit one of these days, D Young?
On the topic of D Young and outfielders generally, I have to give Jim Souhan some credit for a great idea when Cuddy returns…rotate the outfield…Go-go could definitely use some games off, as could D Young…ditch Lamb (who will be gone once Punto / Tolbert return, in any event) and keep the six outfielder attack and see what works…
On the negative re: Souhan, he and Reusse were at it again yesterday morning on the radio dissing the internet fans. I guess we have to take that personally, folks. The rhetoric was that commentators on the internet are all bitter and enjoy being mean and don’t represent the fan base.
I disagree. Here’s my take on what Souhan said: “I don’t enjoy having my work questioned in a public forum, so let’s dismiss these idiots as bozos who don’t matter.” Undeniably, there are some commentators here who only like to whine and be mean and fail to engage in meaningful discourse over the topics that we have passion for–which, keeps guys like Souhan and Reusse in business. But the great majority of us are informed, passionate fans who enjoy the chance to speak their minds.
And sometimes that includes taking exception to the local columnists. Does that mean we’re all irrational whiners who don’t get it? I think not. Souhan and Reusse have powerful positions in the media; you would think their skin would be a little thicker.
One final thought (for now)…count me in as one who wasn’t buying what Dick and Bert were talking about in terms of leaving Liriano at AAA. I don’t agree with Bill Smith if he feels like there’s no spot for him at the majors. This guy was absolutely dominate–CY Young dominate in 2006–he’s doing it again now in Rochester. I’m sorry, but you can find someone to demote, as much as it might pain you, to get that type of talent up here where it belongs.
Translation: If you like Livan’s leadership, then Nick Blackburn can finish out the year at AAA (where he was supposed to be all year, anyway). It won’t kill him. It’s time to stop the Liriano posturing and bring him up already!
Jason, no way Blackburn is getting dropped down to AAA. That’s just silly talk. Liriano is not being kept in the minors as punishment. It’s for his own good to make sure he is 100% ready…remember he was not ready early in the season. When he comes up next time he will not be sent back down. You have to applaud the Twins for treating him with care. Also, facing AAA hitters is not nearly as tough as facing MLB hitters.
Perkins though has the least amount of starts of any of the young pitchers.. and in my mind Perkins being a lefty put him up a notch.. remember Baker was 1 step away from being traded for a bag of chips before he turned it around.. I think Slowey may have already hit his “ceiling” Twins can only start 5 pitchers.. there is no reason to stockpile arms for a rainy day that never comes…
It reminded me of the Eric Fox homer in 1992. He hit five homers in his career and one of them pretty much sunk the Twins–a three-run bomb off of Rick Aguilera. Oddly enough, Jamie Quirk was also on the ‘92 A’s team. Hopefully Teagardne’s isn’t a sinker, but just a blip on an otherwise upwards graph.
Liriano has shown a clear “Garza-like” attitude problem that needs to be nipped now.. he spent the last 2 years hearing Hunter then Johan throw venom at the Twins Org and it seemed to affect him.. he needs to be humbled and ready to listen to Rick Anderson and Friends
Jason-
Send Blackburn to AAA? Are you kidding?He, Baker and Slowey should not go anywhere for any reason. The only possible starters to move would be Livan or Perkins. You don’t send down guys who are turning out quality start after quality start. What kind of message would that send?
cmath,
don’t bring up the Fox HR…ugh….
worst Twins memory
Ruesse and Souhan - whiners, just because you’re in a position to think you know better than ‘internet fans’ what you’re talking about is a shot at the one’s that are TRUE and WELL-INFORMED fans, I like to think I’m in this category.
Just because you happen to be a writer on sports doesn’t mean you know more about the sport or its players. Probably a lot more than most, but not everyobody. I know of a lot of sportswriters who never even actually PLAYED sports. Are either of those guys one of them? I’d like to know.
That disappoints me as well because I thought Souhan’s article on the 3 Twins All-Stars and their stories in relation to Josh Hamilton was one of his best articles in years and of the Strib’s sport section this year, maybe even #1.
Now I just think he’s mostly of the ‘I’m better than everyone else and only what I think matters’ mode again.
Man, if a SLG of .503 is “quiet”, I can’t imagine what it would take to satisfy some people…
Fire…Have you ever heard Liriano speak? It was his agent who wanted the investigation. Liriano said he was fine with things.
the fact is with this whole Liriano situation, is that he KNOWS he’s pitching good enough to help a team in a pennant race make a push, But he’s not on the team to actually do this.
Not his fault, not any of the Twins faults, not any of the front officers’ faults.
The twins weren’t suppose to be playing this good remember? If they were 40-55 Liriano would have been up here at least a month ago.
It’s a tough situation and you can’t fault Liriano for wanting to play for a contending team we and he know he would help.
For as many intelligent posts that are made here, you have to admit that a LOT of it gets drowned in quite a bit of useless venom from some of the less constructive contributors around here.
I’m guessing Souhan and Reusse don’t read through the contents of every post on a daily basis.
When I first got here…all I saw as the rampant whining. It was only after sticking through most of it that I saw the meaty content that can lead to intelligent discourse.
Souhan hit the nail on the head earlier this season when he commented on the whole Punto thing. The “Vocal Majority” as I tend to call it can drown out the quality content if one doesn’t have time to get fully involved with the conversations more than once in a while.
It’s an observation that’s true in ANY online forum. The whiners and moaners will be more outwardly noticeable because it’s easier to pump out a rant than it is to put together a meaningful criticism.
fire: are the twins running a plantation?
i haven’t seen anything bad said by liriano all of it is coming from his agent and he’s trying to get more money for himself and a little for liriano.
IMO, there’s no way the Twins are going to trade one of the four young guys in our rotation. Liriano is also off limits.
If it takes any of those players to get Beltre, I would not make the trade.
TwinsGuy,
While Perkins overall stats maybe underwhelming. A look at quality starts and average innings per start, Perkins has been one of our better starters.
Perkins
10 of 14, 71% QS; 6+ AVG IP/ST
Baker
10 of 15, 67% QS; 6+ AVG IP/ST
Slowey
6 of 14, 43% QS; 5.2+ AVG IP/ST
Blackburn
12 of 19, 63% QS; 6+ AVG IP/ST
Plus his line for the last 4 starts look like this:
26 IP, 23 H, 2 HR, 7 BB, 13 K, 1.15 WHIP, all 4 QS and 2.42 ERA.
So he is improving on his stats and he has consistently giving the Twins Quality Starts. I think the Twins should keep Perkins.
Plankton - I was not even considering the “shot across the bow” by his agent
Howard, just for clarity’s sake, Saltalamacchia’s first name is “Jarrod.” You combined his name with Gerald Laird’s.
Plunkton, I agree that Blackburn isn’t going anywhere, but look at what you’re saying. Of course AAA hitters aren’t the same as MLB, but if you use that logic, then why ever call anyone up?
Liriano’s call-up in April was out of necessity because of injury, and he wasn’t ready. His minor league numbers and Spring Training numbers even reflected that at the time. At this point though, I don’t see how anyone can even reference the April call-up for comparison. He’s allowed one run over 30 innings. That kind of dominance is a sign that he needs to be up in the Majors, plain and simple. Absolutely NO way around it. What gets done remains to be seen, but April is in the past, and so are Liriano’s struggles. At that time, he couldn’t throw strikes and his fastball velocity was down. He’s hitting 95 routinely now and his walk rate is way down (11 over his last 64IP). Pitching at AAA isn’t somehow magically less stressful on his arm than pitching in the Majors. The “we wanna be careful with his health” argument is bogus.
If they were 40-55 Liriano would have been up here at least a month ago.
If Liriano hadn’t gone 0-3 with some very ugly starts he likely would still be up here. 
He didn’t do much to help his own cause when he was called up. That’s the most unfortunate thing about it. And I’m wagering that brief stay up here is what’s making the Twins timid to pull the trigger on anything that would make Liriano a permanent fixture.
What’s the deadline for roster moves before a guy isn’t eligible for the playoffs? Look to see Liriano up here by then. So if he is truly back he’ll be able to help in the postseason as well.
Liriano did say this on the topic though - “”I don’t know why they’re keeping me down here,” “I don’t know why.”
T, I agree with you on that statement. Initially I was a little put off by the incoherent dribble that I noticed at first. Then I started to notice the usual contributors and separated them from the whiners. I think overall, there is a significant amount of baseball knowledge amongst the contributors. I’m assuming here, but I would guess most of us have played the game or at least followed baseball from an early age.
I usually like Souhan’s columns. He is very baseball oriented, so I enjoy reading him. It’s sad to hear him get pious due to his position. It’s the writing talent and education that made him a successful sports writer. Baseball knowledge is secondary, especially if you are a “reporter.”
For some Twins thoughts:
I would contend that trading Liriano would be a terrible terrible idea. From what I hear, he isn’t the one driving this inquiry. His agent feels slighted, and obviously doesn’t get it. I think a logical thing to do would be to move Livan to the Bullpen and make him a spot starter. Then drop Bass or trade Boof (if that’s possible). I don’t want to see any of our young starters get traded, because when Livan is gone next year, we’ll have a hole in the rotation.
Steve,
Thanks! I’ll fix that.
Whiteness,
Agreed. We have a tendency to pull out moments — whether they be successes or failures — when we look back at a season. The Morneau home run in ‘06, for example.
If they’re looking for a creative way to get Liriano up and not lose any of the starting staff, they should consider taking that fifth starting spot and splitting it between Perkins and Livan. Give each of them four innings and if the ninth belongs to Nathan give it to him, if not let the second pitcher take it. That would keep both of the stretched out enough to maintain their starting roles. It would limit the pay of Livan, whose million dollar innings bonuses could dissapear, and it would help shelter Perkins arm which has never come near to two hundred innings in a year.
Livan’s dome success is easy to explain. The pixie vest. Starting pitchers normally get to choose which uniform they want to wear. Livan always goes with the sleeveless jersey at home. If there was a vest option on the road, he’d probably opt for that, and his overall numbers would look better.
I think for the most part, these blogs consist of good discussion and people looking at a good balance of in-depth stats and good in-game observation.
Souhan’s got an ego and he doesn’t like being questioned; too bad. This is the same guy who said the White Sox bullpen “consists of Bobby Jenks and a bunch of guys I’ve never heard of.” Octavio Dotel? Scott Linebrink? No-names? Yeah Jimmy, WE’RE the idiots here…
Regarding the Beltre situation, it won’t happen, and that’s unfortunate. I still think the Twins need to make a move though, so let’s kill two birds with one stone:
According to Ken Rosenthal, the Padres said they’d move Kevin Kouzmanoff for a young outfielder (Who’s heard me say THIS before? Haha:)) I know people like Span, but if we can ship him, Bonser (or Bass, heck maybe both), and perhaps Macri over to San Diego for a combination of Kouzmanoff and Heath Bell (to fill the 8th inning role), I think the Twins jump from playoff hopefuls to the Central Division favorites.
Slide Perkins back into the ‘pen perhaps, call up Korecky again, Liriano into the rotation, Kubel in right until Cuddyer’s back…
We could even let Kouzmanoff DH and play Punto at third for lights out defense in Cuddyer’s absence.
Columbo - from Lavelle’s blog in another post:
TwinsNotesGuy says:
July 21st, 2008 at 11:00 am
T, I like Slowey more than Perkins, he’s uncharactic of a Control Pitcher in the fact he’s 2nd on the teams starters in K/9IP, behind baker.(Bonser would be 2nd if he still started).
and Slowey leads the team in zero run outings with 3.
In my opinion(with emphasis on opinion), Slowey is the better of the 2, and would hurt the rotation a lot more by losing him than perkins.
T,
“What’s the deadline for roster moves before a guy isn’t eligible for the playoffs?”
I believe, its September 1st.
I should clarify that I wasn’t necessarily calling Souhan an idiot, just pointing out that he’s not completely undeserving of criticism.
I’m a 23-year-old diehard baseball fan (since age 3) with a BA in writing and mass communications that dreams of getting into sports writing someday. Something tells me Jimmy wasn’t too different that long ago, haha 
interesting tidbit… mr. Saltalamacchia has the longest last name in major league history. you can look it up.
fire not exactly an inflammatory tirade by liriano.
david - that was a topic of sportcenter special interest story last MLB season.
Everyone should go read Joe Christensen’s post about the White Sox, and then calm the hell down about Liriano. Odds are excellent that one of the five current starters will get hurt or hit the wall, and then Liriano will get his chance.
In fact, I’d be willing to bet that Slowey will go on the DL for his blister problem if he doesn’t pitch well on Tuesday. In the words of Terry Ryan, these things have a way of working themselves out.
Joe C. makes a good point on his blog. We have 6 pitchers who could be considered quality major league arms. It’s a nice problem to have, and one we shouldn’t complain about too much. I still agree with the statement that “it’s all about the pitching.” Look at the Halos. Best starting pitching in the AL = best record in the AL and my favorites to win the WS. Good pitching always trumps good hitting, and the Twinkies continue to pitch the way they have been, I could see 90-94 wins.
When thinking about Souhan’s and Reusse’s attitude toward commenters, try reading some the commenter’s attacks which they are forced to absorb and which are printed after each of their columns.
Trade places and you might become defensive, too.
Sane,
Completely agreed, but it just seems like people in the position of Souhan should have thicker skin, in my opinion. Besides, I think he should recognize that while there’s plenty of bad comments, there are people who have good discussions in a respectful manner.
Roto,
“Good pitching always trumps good hitting”
I apologize for nit-picking.
Three words.
Big Red Machine!
double-a,
Gardy and Anderson have made it clear that there will be no “creative” way to get Liriano up here…translation: he’s not moving to the bullpen and they’re not going to a sixth man rotation.
Look, I understand this situation is frustrating due to the war of words we seem to hear about. But as I said last week, I find it quite comical when fans become turned off when they find out that there can be disagreements between the player and the organization. These disagreements occur far more than fans realize and it doesn’t necessarily effect performance (e.g. Brett Favre and Green Bay Packers).
The bottom line is this: I don’t care if it’s Blackburn or Perkins, someone has to go to make room for this guy. Liriano is simply too good of talent to waste in Rochester. I get that they want to appropriately delineate his development coming off the injury, but as T pointed out, if not for other circumstances (his poor outings, quality starts among current starters), he’d probably have been here months ago. In other words, they can’t go with ‘it was our plan all along to keep him at AAA for the season’.
He must be brought up here if you want to contend for the playoffs. Have people forgotten 2006? He stared down Roger Clemens in Houston and beat him. He’s absolutely a big game pitcher. You cannot leave a guy like that in the minors, no matter what feathers have been ruffled. So as much as I appreciate the quality starts offered up by Blackburn and Perkins, they are not Fransisco Liriano. The team needs to grow a pair and invite its franchise pitcher (you know, the one nicknamed ‘The Franchise’) back up here even in a scenario where it seems that all is good in starterville.
Think of it this way: Do you really think Liriano will be our number four starter on Opening Day 2009, behind Baker, Slowey, Blackburn, and Perkins? I think not.
all right all right.. so it’s everyone’s opinion(or vast majority) that Liriano has spend enough time in minors.. so how does this happen?
1)Livian to the bullpen? Bass and Boof are already mop up guys and why pay 5.5M for a mop up pitcher?
2)send down a starter? ummm NO!!
3)trade Livian for a bag of chips?
4)wait for an injury to a starter
Fire,
this is how it happens:
a. Bass DFA’d
b. Perkins to the pen
c. Liriano up
Fire -
5)trade one in a piece to get Adrian Beltre. (wouldn’t be Livan)
TwinsNotesGuy - that would wreck Twin’s strategy of stocking piling dozens of arms for a rainy day!!!
Perkins in the pen would solve the 8th inning reliever problem? maybe…
On the Souhan / Reusse thing sane…I don’t even think it’s a matter of being thin skinned when it comes to the over-the-top commenters (the ones who use hate words, etc.)
I think it’s a lot simpler than that…I think they don’t want their takes to be questioned, period (even by rational-thinking, polite commenters).
They’re too used to having their position as commenter mean that they are the defacto opinion-voice of the fan and it must go unquestioned.
Well, not in today’s world.
In my view, Pat Reusse is the best sports writer in this market. For my money, he makes the most sense while telling the real truth most of the time. Souhan, while a good writer, is a clear homer. When he writes negatively about a team, he picks on helpless targets (like Lew Ford or Delmon Young), not the big shots who can afford to be held accountable.
The article he wrote heading into the Texas series was homerism at its core; there’s no doubt in my mind that if Souhan is writing for the Dallas Morning News, he’s lamenting how great the Hamilton story is. But hey, we know there is a significant portion of the Minnesota fan base who absolutely loves homerism (which is a partial reason why Sid Hartman is the most famous columnist in this market).
thrylos98: That’s what I was thinking. I think it makes sense to not push Perkins’ innings given his shoulder injury but then we still have an additional capable starting pitcher available if something happens. Not to mention the 8th inning arm we’ve been looking for.
sane, good call. I guess “always” was a little strong. I should say “usually.” I was thinking of the playoff teams with the solid 1-2 punches like Bert/Viola, Unit/Schilling, Clemens/Pettite.
I want to throw this out there as part of the Liriano commentary. Liriano or Perkins WILL NOT be put in the pen. It is far too detrimental to their long term success. They’ve already said it. Once you stretch out a guy’s arm to be a starter, you can only damage them by moving them from starter to pen and then to starter. That’s why Perkins was sent down early to build up arm strength.
There is a long track record of guys who were solid pen contributors that went in as starters in one season or following the season, and they tend to have an arm issue. Shaun Marcum is the most recent case.
I’m just saying that for the years we put up with a guy like Mullholland as our 5th starter, there is no reason to complain that we have too many decent to good starters.
Here’s a stat that really blew me away about Delmon over the weekend. The side scoreboards were displaying the team “leader” stats for Texas and Minnesota, and guess who had the second most hits for the Twins behind Justin Morneau? It was Delmon Young!!! Mauer was third. Delmon has so many poor at bats and swings at so many first pitch balls that I have to say that I was genuinely - but pleasantly - surprised.
IMHO, they will not put Perkins in the pen.Not the way he is pitching lately.
As far as Liriano, it will more than likely be an injury ( maybe Slowey?).
He really should replace Hernandez, if were looking at the overall stats…though I have to admit, for some odd reason,I like watching him pitch.
Roto,
For as bad as Mulholland was with the Twins in 2004, his numbers (aside from wins) were slightly better than Livan’s…
Columbo - It’s the Eephus, I love watching the hitters crap their pants on that pitch when they’re not expecting it…
so ya, i also for some odd reason enjoy watching him pitch, he should only at the dome though…
FIRE VAVRA, you move one of the existing starters to the pen and release Bass. It is that simple. You still have depth you as they can be moved back in a pinch. Liriano is a proven all star caliber pitcher. Nobody else in this rotation should have a spot in the rotation over him. Simple as that.
Also, poor Scott Baker! We’ve lost 4 games this season by a score of 1-0, and guess who was pitching in three of the four games? Perhaps Baker is this season’s johan Santana in terms of lack of run support….
TwinsNotesGuy,
That’s the answer.Hernandez pitches at home in are cozy dome and Liraino is brought up to pitch Livan’s road starts,LOL.
If we could get kouzmanoff, I think we should seriously look at trading kubel and none of the other guys. before the bashers start coming, i’ll explain why: kubel seems to have hit is ceiling - he’s a slow fielder, making him a DH guy at best; in addition he’s not done much better this year except hit a few more HR’s and hit an underwhelming .260-270. He can be very clutch, but that potential is in plenty of the lineup. Span on the other hand only gets better and has tons of potential - he’s major fast, works counts, has a high OPS and is a potential leadoff hitter.
Matt,
I think it’s easy to get on Kubel for his average, but keep in mind that he’s not getting regular playing time. Last season, when he was playing regularly over the second half, put up a line of .303/.379/.511 for an .891 OPS. Span may have a better eye, but his OPS will come down because he won’t sustain a .411 OBP.
Additionally, the idea behind trading for Kouzmanoff is to add another power bat to our lineup. Why would we trade our biggest power threat besides Morneau to get another power bat?
The Twins have a surplus of speedy players with no power. It makes more sense to trade one to get what we’re lacking, then to trade what we’re lacking in the first place away.
I think that if given the chance to be the every day DH, Kubel can routinely put up numbers like Cuddyer did in 2006, and possibly even more.
When he was still moving through the system, Baseball America had Kubel ranked as the Twins’ top prospect in terms of being able to hit for average.
I know that’s hardly a can’t-miss prediction, but looking at Jason’s minor league averages, I think it’s completely unfair to say that a .260 average is his ceiling:
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/K/jason-kubel.shtml
Span, on the other hand, really hasn’t done much to impress in recent years, except these past few months:
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/S/Denard-Span.shtml
Minor league numbers shouldn’t be taken as exact testaments to what to expect from players at the Major League level, but it’s certainly something worth looking at.
We have a great problem!
Matt - If Kubel is such a poor fielder and a DH guy at best, why would a National League team want him?
Just catching up on the comments here today.
a-the comments section following the actual Strib articles are garbage. Hard to fault any writer for dissing “internet” fans if they’re basing their opinions on those comment sections. Reading them is a total waste of time.
b-I rarely bother to read many of the comments in LEN’s or JoeC’s blog entries. I’m not sure why, but it just seems like the comments here in Howard’s blog are less extreme and more thoughtful/informed. It’s interesting, too, because so many of the comments come from the same people in all 3 blogs.
I’m in the minority here, clearly, in that I agree with not bringing Liriano up yet. He’s done GREAT in Rochester and if you have someone not doing his job in the Bigs, you get him up there quick. But all five… yes, even Livon… are doing their respective jobs very well… and they are doing it against major league hitters, not AAA.
Face it… if Liriano hadn’t had the success he did in ‘06, nobody would be clammoring to get him up here and dump someone else, no matter how well he’s pitching in Rochester. But that Liriano is gone… this version is not at that level and may never be.
As for the comment that the Twins can’t be contenders without him, all I can say is look at the standings. They ARE contenders without him. Bringing him in and sending someone else down or even to the bullpen is risky and unnecessary.
The Twins are going to need another starting pitcher. Even if they’re lucky enough to continue getting outstanding starting pitching through August without injuries, Liriano will be available to contribute to the stretch run in September. And since he’s already on the 40-man roster, I don’t think there’s any reason he couldn’t be eligible for the playoffs, if the Twins get there, too. There’s just no rush.
Oh… and none of those guys is going to be traded either. The 5 young guys could constitute the best rotation, top to bottom, in baseball next year… and Livan’s stats, salary, and bonus for IPs all combine to make him virtually untradeable, imo.
Kubel and Kouzmanoff are the same age and Kubel compares favorable in any offensive category, plus he is a better fielder. I am not sure that Kouzmanoff is better than Buscher/Macri at this point
Steve - Its understandable to look at minor league records, but what matters most is in the majors (the here and now) and span has done nothing but impress. Jason has been up in the majors for awhile and has shown hes injury prone and after several major league at bats has shown he’s about a 260-270 guy. If we traded span he’d be an instant starter over there and we’d be left with Gomez at leadoff. This way we give up a guy who plays most games - with favorable matchups since he usually doesnt hit against lefties - that has only hit a handful of homeruns. I’d much rather have a speedster who gets on base a lot than a guy with potential power.
Tony - cuz hes way better than chip ambres or jody gerut
livan has a 2-5 record with a 7.48 era on the road and continues to be defended. if any other pitcher had those stats he’d be gone. bring up liriano give livan some home spot starts and long relief. they didn’t have a problem sitting lamb when he didn’t produce and livan is not producing on the road. how many more road games can they afford to give away?
i think it would be good for gomez to sit a couple games, he just isn’t making any improvement. i agree with souhan and thought the same thing when he missed the bunt yesterday, cost us a run and maybe a bigger inning. to his credit young started out poorly but has improved steadily now 2nd on the team in hits.
crikket: howard has at times stepped in when things got out of line which i think tends to mellow the crowd here. for the good by the way.
Think of it this way: Do you really think Liriano will be our number four starter on Opening Day 2009, behind Baker, Slowey, Blackburn, and Perkins? I think not.
The only way Liriano will be the #4 starter is if we start the year with a 3 game road series and he starts the home opener.
I think Baker will be the Opening Day starter next year.
dang, gobble… and I thought it was because this is where I tend to comment more.
OK fine, give the credit to Howard.
Grant that Hernandez has a poor road record, but you can’t JUST criticize without looking at the flip side. That 3.91 home ERA is pretty nice. Those games DO count, too, right?
While basing decisions this year on who we think will/won’t be in what rotation spot next spring is pretty rediculous, imo, I would offer that it’s quite possible Liriano will be #4 or lower next April.
All he has to do is loaf around and get fat like he did last off-season, fail to have his visa paperwork in order, and not show up to camp on time… again.
that’s why i think you move him to long relief on the road and spot start him at home giving the young guys each a game off break over the next month. help save the young arms for the stretch and maybe save a couple throw away road games by livan.
OK but as long as we’re going to play home/away with Livan, shouldn’t we at least do the same with Cisco? Everyone talks about how great he’s been for his last 4 starts… but 3 of those were at home.
The two games before that little stretch were on the road and he coughed up 10 ERs in 10 and a third innings.
In fact, six of his last 10 starts have been at home. In the four road games, his ERA is over 5.00 per 9… and that’s WITH the 7 innings of shutout ball he threw in Durham on July 10. And these are road games against AAA hitters… not exactly the Yankees or WhiteSox lineups.
Just sayin
“that’s why i think you move him to long relief on the road and spot start him at home giving the young guys each a game off break over the next month. help save the young arms for the stretch and maybe save a couple throw away road games by livan.”
I agree with that statement. We will essentially have 6 starters and a long reliever if needed. Bass can go away. Boof can sit in Rincon’s old role until he gets going again, which I’m convinced he will do. I think if there is a way to save the young guys’ arms, they have to do it.
If you are going to pitch Liriano/Livan where they are most effective, you pitch Livan in the Dome and Liriano in Rochester.
The answer to Livan’s road woes lies in the power of the pixie vest. The Twins just need to cut off the sleeves of a road jersey for every player so Livan can have his pixie vest on the road.
i’m convinced, no need to make any changes, we’ll be up by 10 gms in no time and coast to a div. title without any help.
no punto tonight could put a monkey wrench into that.
“If you are going to pitch Liriano/Livan where they are most effective, you pitch Livan in the Dome and Liriano in Rochester.”
Now… if we can just get the White Sox to move their home games to Rochester…
Honestly, gobble, I’m not sure there is the kind of glaring need this year that others teams have (and that the Twins have had other years at the deadline).
I look at the line up and nothing just leaps at you. Harris’ .260 without much punch and limited defensive range, maybe. But he at least makes the play on things he does get to.
Buscher looks good enough… until he faces a LHP. So yes, a 3B who can hit lefties would be nice to pick up.
But if Cuddyer and Punto (yes, I said Punto) can get.. and stay.. healthy, I just don’t see glaring deficiencies like you do on other “contending” teams.
If the worst thing you can say is that you need a 3B to hit lefties and a little more reliable set-up guy in the pen (whatever happened to Korecky, btw… he showed some promise during his cup of coffee, didn’t he?), you’re really not positioned too badly for the stretch run.
No, not going to run away and hide from the pack, but if the starting pitching holds, you’ll contend to the end. (And if the starting pitching doesn’t hold, it really doesn’t matter who you pick up at this point.)
Matt,
Span may be impressive so far, but he has 81 Major League ABs. That’s not enough to trade away Kubel or any of our other OFs. Plus, he’s got 2 hits and 1 walk in his last 18 plate appearances to go along with 5 Ks. He’s slowing down quite a bit right now.
Kubel hasn’t in any way, shape, or form shown he’s only a .260-.270 hitter. As I said, in the only period of time where he was really getting regular playing time last season, he hit .303 after the All-Star Break once he got regular time, including batting .365 in August and .324 in September. He hit .312 in June of this season.
Since August of last season, these are Kubel’s stats:
.289/.366/.492 in 126 games with 17 HR and 69 RBI. He’s got 24 doubles and 4 triples as well. He’s drawn 50 walks and has an OPS of .858 over that time.
If you give him constant regular playing time, I think Kubel - in spite of his struggles against LHP - can be a .300 hitter with 25 HR and 100 RBI upside.
I’ll take Kubel’s last 126 games and 409 ABs over Span’s 81-AB hot streak to start his career.
Kubel was the organization’s #1 prospect for several years for a reason, much like I still think there’s a reason that Span was an afterthought and the Twins felt pressured to trade Johan for a CF. He’ll come back down to Earth in a big way pretty soon… if you ask me, he’s already started over these past five games.
Peter at 11:41 — “In fact, I’d be willing to bet that Slowey will go on the DL for his blister problem…”
No complaints about Slowey…..But I’d still like to see him visit AAA to strengthen his FB and curve as I posted a few days ago. It would complete his development to become a superb MLB pitcher.
I wouldn’t start him in NY; I’d have Liriano instead.
Slowey for Beltry?
JimCrikket at 1:42 — “But that Liriano is gone… this version is not at that level and may never be.”
Hits 97 on his FB, hits 90 on his slider. And what, 1 ER in his last 30 innings?
romer,
Beltry?
Beltre, not Beltry.
And BTW, it’s Livan, not Livon.
A fellow vocalist/singer who’s a friend sang the national anthem/7th inning at the Dome yesterday. He missed my back party which lasted till 1:00 this morning.
Beltry wasn’t there either.
I meant, “He missed my big party…” Obviously I didn’t.
(And it was a rockin’ music event on an isolated lakeshore here in SW MN. We listened to the Twins game first.)
“Honestly, gobble, I’m not sure there is the kind of glaring need this year that others teams have…”
Agreed, almost.
However, it looks like the League is figuring out Span and has probably already figured Gomez out. So that could leave all the ignition squarely on Casilla’s shoulders.
This isn’t a “percentage” change (say, 95% of the offense it used to be), but rather an exponential change which essentially could take away the Twins basic offense and make them the weaker club everyone thought they’d be 3 months ago.
Danger-danger Will Robinson.
Sorry if I’m not ready to say this is the “old” Liriano based on 4 AAA games (three of which were against teams that are among the very dregs of the International League). Not when the two games prior to those saw him give up about an earned run per inning pitched.
I do agree that the league seems to have developed a “book” on Gomez and Span. Makes you wonder if the Twins do any “opposition” scouting of their own players… would seem to make sense. Figure out what the “book” is on your own hitters and do something about it, or at least have a clue what opposing pitchers are going to throw at you.
In any event, just as the sample size is too small to declare Span has arrived as a major leaguer, it’s also too small to conclude that he’s been figured out. I do know he’s saved the Twins’ collective asses by filling in for Cuddyer. But I’m not on the “trade Cuddyer” bandwagon, by any means.
Two things are unbelievable today:
1. Take Perkins out of the starting pitching slate? First, comparing stats, you might want to add “against major leaguers.” Also, Perkins’ biggest problem has been against lefties - did we forget he used a new pitch in the last outing?
2. Revere was 4 for 4 today - at Beloit! brins his ave back to .402 - apparently, coaches at Ft Myers cannot instruct him on “bad routes” in the outfield. Or there are sevre service time issues involving advanced class A
brings
severe
I’m not on the trade Cuddy bandwagon either. I’m like, God bless him AND Span.
I hope the Twins trade Cuddyer, Bonser, Hernandez and Punto for a solid relief pitcher to get them the division championship. Span is a Lou Brock type of player who benefits the team in many many ways that Cuddyer does not. Cuddyer is vastly over-rated clumsy. Span will be an all-star whereas Cuddyer will simply exist with up and down years and contributing little more to the team than his b.s.
I agree that Punto and Cuddyer are both drags on the team’s ability to win in a very competitive league. They both act like they have the mental ability of little leaguers. Lets hope they get off the roste one way or another and make room for better players like Span and Tolbert.
Steve - I stand corrected.
