I just wanted to thank you for pointing out that loan program. It is amazing after two years no one at the city or county mentioned this program. It is not obvious that a homeowner that does not own a farm can apply for a farm loan to fix a septic system but we will take it.

Currently Anoka county does not participate in this program.

A home buyer does not need a real estate agent. All they want is the quick sale and the commission. You are better off asking for the agent’s commission to use at closing and hiring a real estate attorney to go over the documents with you.

We were also told that sellers are responsible, however it is EXTREMELY difficult to show they knew what was wrong. In our case a city inspection was done AND they hired a licensed installer. By doing that I would not hold them responsible. However if you look at the documents that were not given to us we would have easily known something was wrong with the septic system and well.

The seller had the drainfield in the wrong location(water does not go up hill 90 ft without a lift station) the date of installation was not correct and they did not know how big the drainfield was. If you are updating a cesspool a drainfield would have to be installed and since he was the homeowner he should know how big it is.

They also failed to disclose the abandoned well.

Buyer beware and DO NOT SIGN AN ARBITRATION AGREEMENT. I doubt it would have cost us $30,000 to go to court to fight the fact we were not given the documents. In fact the attorney for the broker wanted to settle for $12,000 if I took the broker and agent’s name off the demand. He stated I could still hold the hearing against the sellers and ask for the full amount, which could have given us $35,000. Hindsight of course we should have done that.

We signed an arbitration agreement. Our realtor’s attorney said, don’t bother the fix would only be about $12k and you were planning on replacing the carpet and deck anyway. Our response was - not yet, probably not for a few years in fact.
We contatced the sellers and told them of the issues and offered to settle for half the amount we got bids for, vs going to arbitration, they fought back and paid nothing…

I have been told numerous times that if it is not disclosed and the seller knew of the defect - then they are liable.
There was evidence of all these issues after we were forced to take a closer look that they were well aware of the defects and no disclosure was made.

I will not sign an arbitration agreement again, since it is a useless document that only provides the realtor with an excuse to turn you away from submitting a claim!

How is more regulation going to help? There were already NUMEROUS laws in place to protect my family and I.

The real estate agents will simply choose a compliance inspector that will pass the systems and if they do not that inspector will lose business.(see Anoka County court case).

The better solution is to hire your own inspector at the sellers expense but that still does not guarantee the inspection would be a good. However if you tell the compliance inspector they will lose their license for 6 months for passing a non-compliant system and they are responsible for bringing the system to compliance the buyer would probably benefit from the inspection.

Currently, the inspector will only be responsible for the cost that they were paid for the inspection. It is then up to the buyer to seek damages from the agent and seller who will simply say “we are not septic experts, we relied on the compliance inspector.”

You should have seen the dumb look on the sellers face when I asked him why he did not hook up all the plumbing to the tank that was installed in 2003. If the clothes washer would have been connected to that tank they would not have lasted 2 years. Even the arbitrator stated they relied on the installer and the city to make sure our system was compliant.

Accountability is the key, in the end all they want is money. It is time for the MPCA to relinquish licensing responsibility to the Board of Architecture and Engineering. It may not be the best solution but it cannot be any worse than the current system.

Normally the inspector is only responsible for refunding you the fee you paid to have the inspection done. Most inspections cost $300 and in our case to fix the system will cost $15,000. Where do you get the remaining $14,700? Also to take the inspector to court would cost you more than the inspection fee.

There is a recent court case in Anoka County where the compliance inspector failed the system, the homeowner got a second opinion probably at the advice of the realtor and it magically passed. The original inspector claims he was not paid for the systems he failed and he has lost business. Did I mention the MPCA failed one of the systems as well?

We purchased the home knowing a permit was pulled for the septic, the inspector was “licensed” and there is no benefit for a city inspector to fail or pass a system. They are supposed to be impartial.

In hindsight we should have hired one but a properly installed septic system should last 30 years. When we bought the home the system was only 2.5 years old.

I would take FULL responsibilty if a drainfield was installed, the other tanks were properly abandoned and the real estate agent gave us the private sewer disclosure. However we were living in Iowa when this system was updated, how it can be our responsibility makes no sense. It just goes to show city permits are worthless.

I disagree with you. We do need more regulation to avoid this. We need a state law to require spetic system compliance inspections at the point of sale. A true compliance inspection, conducted under recently revised MPCA rules and guidelines by a licensed professional, would reveal whether a septic system is compliant and properly functioning or not. Prior to the revised MPCA guidelines, there were a host of problems that would not be revealed by a compliance inspection. Realtor associations have lobbied against this requirement because they don’t want failing septic systems to hold up sales. This is exactly the reason the state should require them. Home buyers need to be aware of what they are buying. Regulation at the State is the only way to do this. If it is left up to local governments, e.g. Cities and Counties, it will not get done.

1)Everyone involved with the design, installation and inspection were “licensed professionals” through the MPCA.

2)The MPCA blames the designer who found the cesspool yet retired the year before the system was updated.

3)The real estate agent that represented us did not give us the well and Private Sewer disclosure forms. All we were given were maps which were not corrected.

4)The Department of Commerce is responsible for the broker’s and agent’s license. I have no idea where their investigation stands.

We need more accountability. You want to know why kids walk up and down Hanson Blvd beating people up? No one is accountable for their actions.

Have you had to answer this question from your 10-year old:

Why do we have to follow the rules at school but the city and the people we bought the house from do not have to follow rules?

I will look into that program.

Jeff,

All the quotes came in between $13,000 and $17,000. Unfortunately there is mottled soil everywhere so we do not have a choice.

You have to watch out, very few people can be trusted because they know the MPCA and cities will not do anything if they mess up. In our case the MPCA blamed the designer that found a cesspool failed the system then retired the year PRIOR to the installation. I am not sure the designer’s would be happy to know that if they do a design, give that design to a homeowner then the homeowner gives the design to an installer two years later, the design is responsible. Usually designers work with dedicated installers or they are installers themselves.

How does a homeowner find a reputable installer and designer when the MPCA does not do anything? Just because they are licensed does not mean they know what they are doing. It just shows they paid the $100 fee, are bonded and insured and passed a test.

Everyone involved with the system update on our property was licensed. We can not find a drainfield and there are three seperate systems on the property.